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99 Sonata Cuts off

 
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      06-30-2008, 01:40 AM
About 3 weeks ago I posted that my sons 99 Sonata 2.4L would intermittingly
cut off and restart in a few minutes. There were no DTCs. Then one day it
would not restart and he had it towed into a independent shop. Their
diagnosis was that the valve cover was leaking oil into the spark plugs and
had shorted out the plugs and the coil packs. I told him that I didn't think
they knew what they were doing, but they had him over a barrel. They ended
up charging almost $800 dollars to replace the valve cover gasket, 2 coils,
4 plugs and wires. Much to my surprise, he was able to drive it home after
with no more work required. But it only lasted about 3 weeks and it died
again on the road. He had it towed to the same shop thinking that they would
stand behind their work. Of course the next day they come up wanting another
$700 for fixing it this time. Now they want to replace the crank sensor and
the output speed sensor. He asked them if it would be OK if he waited till
the next day to let them know what he wanted them to do and they replied
that they had already moved the car out of the shop. He asked how, and they
said they just started it up and drove it out. He called me and I told him
it was time to cut his losses with these bandits and to lets go get the car
back . When we got to the shop they wanted $80 (1 hour labor) for
diagnostics to determine the problem. I asked them how it took an hour to
read the DTCs with the scan tool, and hadn't he paid them enough already.
After an lively discussion we agreed to pay them $40 to get the car back.
I read the DTCs and they are
P0335
P0715
P0725
and P0715 (P)
So it looks to me like it needs a new Crank Sensor and a new Input Speed
Sensor. I went back and looked at receipt/work order and it definitely had
output speed sensor on it. I wonder if they were setting him up for a return
visit for more bucks.
After some cursory research it appears that the speed sensor should be a
piece of cake, but I am concerned that the crank sensor may be more
complicated that I first thought.
Few questions for HyundaiTech.
1) Is it just a coincident that these combination of codes showed up or does
it mean something more serious?. They appear to be two completely unrelated
problems. Why would they appear almost simultaneously?
2) Is it normal for the same code (P0715) to show up solid and pending?
3) Any idea why they would want to replace the output speed sensor? I'm
assuming they didn't clear out any codes.
4) I haven't done any real engine work since they did away with the
distributor, do you think I will be getting in over my head to try to
replace the crank sensor?
5) Any comments, hints, shortcuts, got'yahs will be appreciated..
6) Where did they put the location photos in the new format Hmaservice.com?
I had figured out where they were in the old format, but can't find them
now.
7) I am assuming that there's no timing issues I need to be concerned with
by changing the crank sensor, correct?


 
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hyundaitech
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      06-30-2008, 04:41 PM
1. Coincidence. Neither has anything to do with the other.

2. Yes, this is normal. I've seen it numerous times. For whateve
reason, this is how the PCM stores some of the codes-- once for pending
and then again for confirmed.

3. Nope. I'm guessing they misspoke or don't really have any idea wha
they're doing.

4. Typically, you'll need to remove the timing belt to do the job. I
you're comfortable with replacing the timing belt on this engine, the
it'll be okay. The timing belt is a bit tricky to get everything right
so I tend to recommend this as a DIY job only to those that are ver
familiar with timing belt work.

5. The timing belt on the 2.4 has a short lifespan-- I've even replace
some due to failure within the 4 year/60k maintenance window. If you'r
past halfway on your current interval (either by time or mileage), replac
the timing and balance belts while you're replacing the crank sensor.

If you're not replacing the timing or balance belt, you can sneak th
wiring behind the timing belt if you remove the terminals from th
connector. And, of course, you'll need to do this with the new connector
You'll need a small pick or terminal release tool to do this. Keep i
mind that you'll need to get the wires back in the same position in th
connector if you choose to do this.

6. The location photos should be in the ETM section, but I cannot fin
any link there. In this case, I went to the newest car in the EF Sonat
group, since it has the same transmission. Once you're in the 2005 Sonat
schematic of choice, click on the blue connector number for the componen
you wish to see. Another window will pop up for the connector view. I
this new window, click on the "component" link to see a picture of th
component.

The input speed sensor is below the bracket holding the shift cable i
place. It's labeled "pulse generator A" in the schematic

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hyundaitech
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      06-30-2008, 04:42 PM
Oops. Forgot one.

7. If you remove the timing belt(s), you'll need to retime the camshafts
and balance shaft(s). There are no adjustments to ignition timing

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      07-02-2008, 04:09 AM
HyundaiTech, thanks for your knowledgeable reply (as always).
I have already removed the input speed sensor, it was easier that I thought
it would be. I will run by the dealer to pick one up tomorrow and stick it
in. I had found a photo in TSB 05-40-011 that was very helpful.
I am still undecided about attempting the crank sensor. I am not
comfortable messing with the timing belt. My first Hyundai was a 92 Elantra
and when I had the timing belt replaced on it, the Hyundai mechanic didn't
do it correctly. Bent the valve stems and messed up the head. Fortunately
the dealer stood behind his work. But I don't think it ever ran right after
that and would not pass the emission tests. That left a lasting impression.
I have a photo and a diagram showing the location of the crank sensor and it
looks as if I can get it out without taking the belt off. I did not
understand you comments about the terminal/connector. Doesn't the
cable/connector disconnect from the sensor same as the speed sensor did?
Maybe a little more detail would help. I still can not find any
instructions on how to get into the timing belt area. There seems to be very
little space to work in there. Is the crankshaft pulley just held on by a
bolt or will I need to use a puller? What all needs to come off before I can
get the cover off? Any details you can provide would be most appreciated.
Thanks

"hyundaitech" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) lkaboutautos.com...
> 1. Coincidence. Neither has anything to do with the other.
>
> 2. Yes, this is normal. I've seen it numerous times. For whatever
> reason, this is how the PCM stores some of the codes-- once for pending,
> and then again for confirmed.
>
> 3. Nope. I'm guessing they misspoke or don't really have any idea what
> they're doing.
>
> 4. Typically, you'll need to remove the timing belt to do the job. If
> you're comfortable with replacing the timing belt on this engine, then
> it'll be okay. The timing belt is a bit tricky to get everything right,
> so I tend to recommend this as a DIY job only to those that are very
> familiar with timing belt work.
>
> 5. The timing belt on the 2.4 has a short lifespan-- I've even replaced
> some due to failure within the 4 year/60k maintenance window. If you're
> past halfway on your current interval (either by time or mileage), replace
> the timing and balance belts while you're replacing the crank sensor.
>
> If you're not replacing the timing or balance belt, you can sneak the
> wiring behind the timing belt if you remove the terminals from the
> connector. And, of course, you'll need to do this with the new connector.
> You'll need a small pick or terminal release tool to do this. Keep in
> mind that you'll need to get the wires back in the same position in the
> connector if you choose to do this.
>
> 6. The location photos should be in the ETM section, but I cannot find
> any link there. In this case, I went to the newest car in the EF Sonata
> group, since it has the same transmission. Once you're in the 2005 Sonata
> schematic of choice, click on the blue connector number for the component
> you wish to see. Another window will pop up for the connector view. In
> this new window, click on the "component" link to see a picture of the
> component.
>
> The input speed sensor is below the bracket holding the shift cable in
> place. It's labeled "pulse generator A" in the schematic.
>
> --
> Message posted using
> http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
>
>



 
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hyundaitech
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      07-02-2008, 03:29 PM
The connector for the crankshaft sensor is just behind the valve cover.
The sensor itself is mounted by the crankshaft sprocket. When you look a
the speed sensor, you'll see a sensor, a long wire, and a connector on th
end that plugs into the harness connector. The wiring for the sensor goe
between the timing belt and the engine, but you won't be able to squeez
the connector end nor the sensor end between the timing belt and engine t
get it out. Hence, you'll either need to remove the timing belt, or remov
the terminals from the connector so it'll slip out from behind the timin
belt.

The crankshaft pulley is held in place by 4 12mm bolts. You'll probabl
need to remove the center 22mm bolt to remove the lower timing cover, an
that'll probably ease removing the pulley as well.

To remove the sensor, you'll need to remove the timing covers (require
removing engine mount), the power steering pump bracket, and the engin
cover

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