06 Sonata V6 cold start

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PMDR

Somewhat colder weather has started settling in and my 06 V6 Sonata
(<5000 miles) is doing some new things on a cold start.

Normally it fires up and holds around 1100rpm. Now, it's jumping
above 2100rpm and holding that for five or ten seconds. It's
something like what would happen if you started it with your foot on
the gas, which I am _not_ doing.

So what's the issue? I always heard that it was never a good idea to
rev a cold engine because it promotes carbon buildup. And anyway, the
car didn't do this in the summer. Is this normal cold weather
behavior for a Lamda V6?

I am also still getting some sort of vibration at idle which feels and
sounds like a classic misfire. It's plainly felt from the driver's
seat and heard audibly out the exhaust pipes.

At the 3500 mile oil change, I asked the dealer to check that and they
said they found nothing abnormal.
 
Reply to message from "PMDR" <[email protected]> (Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:
44) about "06 Sonata V6 cold start":

P> Somewhat colder weather has started settling in and my 06 V6 Sonata
P> (<5000
P> miles) is doing some new things on a cold start.

How cold is it? Sounds like some re-programming of the ECU is in order.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:35:37 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
This is normal operation in colder weather for any car. At colder
temperatures, the engine must run faster to run well. As the engine
warms, the idle should lower.
 
It may be normal operation, but, it is unnecessary for it to idle at
2100 rpms when cold outside. I had this same incident on my 2002 SantFe
when it was new. It bothered me to see it immediately rev to 2100 rpms
when it was started in -20 f . temps. I took it back to my Hyundai
Dealer and was told 'it was normal for Hyundais' . I since found out
how the Idle Device (for lack of the technical definition) works ; I
very easily removed it (2 screws and a clip) from the top of the engine
and made a solid template (gasket) out of light gauge sheetmetal to
exactly match the size of the flange of this Device. I then proceeded to
drill two new holes in the middle of the template which were roughly
half the size of the existing holes of the Device . I reinstalled the
Device with the Template in between , and wullah...she idles at 1100
rpm, when cold, regardless of ambient temps. Absolutely no
driveability problems, or codes, and it gets 1 mpg better fuel economy.
Plus, you cant even tell the Device was modified.

This proves that cold revving at 2100 rpms is totally unnecessary , and
if it takes a bit longer to warm up the car on a cold day, id rather
have it that way .
 
Reply to message from [email protected] (Dave in Lake Villa) (Wed,
08 Nov 2006 17:38:20) about "Re: 06 Sonata V6 cold start":

D> This proves that cold revving at 2100 rpms is totally unnecessary , and
D> if it takes a bit longer to warm up the car on a cold day, id rather
D> have it that way .

I had 5 Hyundais and even when I lived in Canada I never had the car idle
at more than 1500 rpm from start.

I too would want them to adjust it.

How cold was it when it idled at 2100?

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:07:30 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
'I had 5 Hyundais and even when I lived in Canada I never had the car
idle at more than 1500 rpm from start.'

REPLY: The highest ive ever had a car idle (other than the SantaFe) ,
was 1700 rpms. No doubt they rev it up higher for better emissions ; at
the expense of some engine wear im sure.

'How cold was it when it idled at 2100? '

REPLY: It used to idle between 1900-2100 rpms anytime the car was first
started , summer or winter. Didnt bother me much when it was 70 f
outside and starting it up , but, when its -20 f. i dont want it
immediately racing at 2100 rpms.

'I too would want them to adjust it. '

REPLY: I can assure you, they wont . So sometimes you have to matters
into y our own hands to come up with a solution.
 
Dave in Lake Villa said:
'I too would want them to adjust it. '

REPLY: I can assure you, they wont . So sometimes you have to matters
into y our own hands to come up with a solution.
Click to expand...

Why won't they? You sometimes have to make a PITA of yourself. Call the
salesman every day about it. Call the service manager every day about it.
I'd be at the dealer every day until corrected. Parked right in front of
the bay door in the morning. Or parked across the street with a sign on the
car. Lots of ways to get a nuisance fixed.
 
Reply to message from "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> (Thu, 09 Nov 2006
18:07:45) about "Re: 06 Sonata V6 cold start":

EP> Why won't they? You sometimes have to make a PITA of yourself. Call
EP> the salesman every day about it. Call the service manager every day
EP> about it.

While I would not go to the same lengths as you I certainly think that
either they fix it or they lose my business.

I would tell the dealer principal what the situation was before making my
final decision. Bet you it would get fixed then.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:31:58 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
They won't fix it because it isn't broken. Hyundai will neither authorize
nor pay for repairs that are for reasons other than to repair defects.

I understand you think that the car shouldn't idle that fast, but if
Hyundai advises the dealer that the car is operating normally, the dealer
is pretty much helpless to assist you under warranty.

Furthermore, the modifications that would need to be made to get the car
to idle lower would "alter" the emissions system. While a method like
Dave used may not be a big deal, it may still be quite illegal in some
places. Furthermore, to reduce the idle using correct means of repair,
the engine computer would need to be reprogrammed. And the manufacturer
is *definitely* not allowed to do that without EPA approval.
 
Reply to message from "hyundaitech" <[email protected]> (Thu, 09 Nov
2006 19:30:04) about "Re: 06 Sonata V6 cold start":

h> Furthermore, to reduce the idle using correct means of repair, the
h> engine computer would need to be reprogrammed. And the manufacturer
h> is *definitely* not allowed to do that without EPA approval.

So you are saying that there is no idle screw or the throttle body and the
only way to change the idle is by re-programming the computer?

You make good points but I believe that Hyundai will give some credence to
this problem and do it under customer goodwill. I know that the Reps have
that latitude.

I once had a steering rack on my 89 Sonata replaced under warranty but when
time came to pay the dealer wanted to charge for the alignment saying that
it was not covered under warranty. I paid the bill as I needed to leave but
I told them I'd be writing Hyundai. This I did claiming that it was foolish
to replace a part under warranty but not cover the alignment necessitated
by the replacement of that part. I got my money back. That was my 1st
Hyundai and I have had at least 1 Hyundai continuously since then - total 5
and counting.

I think that they have to recognize that their business was built and
continues to be built on repeat customers and word of month.

Not fixing a simple 'perceived' (by the customer) idle problem is myopic.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:06:21 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
hyundaitech said:
They won't fix it because it isn't broken. Hyundai will neither authorize
nor pay for repairs that are for reasons other than to repair defects.
Click to expand...

2100 RPM is normal? I've not had any temperature under 25 degrees F yet and
my V6 has not approached that speed. I've never seen 2100 RPM idle on any
car I've ever owned no matter how cold. If every Sonata V6 hits 2100 on
start up, I'd agree, but if they are all programmed the same way that 2100
would seem to be abnormal to me if the others are a more normal 1200 or so.
 
Edwin said:
2100 RPM is normal? I've not had any temperature under 25 degrees F yet and
my V6 has not approached that speed. I've never seen 2100 RPM idle on any
car I've ever owned no matter how cold. If every Sonata V6 hits 2100 on
start up, I'd agree, but if they are all programmed the same way that 2100
would seem to be abnormal to me if the others are a more normal 1200 or so.
Click to expand...

I have a 1986 Jeep Comanche that always revved up to 2,000 rpm when
started in cold weather. I worried about it at first, but after 20
years and unknown miles (odometer quit at 150,000 or so), I no longer
worry about it. :-)


Matt
 
Reply to message from "hyundaitech" <[email protected]> (Thu, 09 Nov
2006 19:30:04) about "Re: 06 Sonata V6 cold start":

h> Furthermore, to reduce the idle using correct means of repair, the
h> engine computer would need to be reprogrammed. And the manufacturer
h> is *definitely* not allowed to do that without EPA approval.
So you are saying that there is no idle screw or the throttle body and the
only way to change the idle is by re-programming the computer?
Click to expand...

Hasn't been on most cars for several years.
You make good points but I believe that Hyundai will give some credence to
this problem and do it under customer goodwill. I know that the Reps have
that latitude.
Click to expand...

Customer Goodwill? For a problem that does not exist? The car is working
as designed. What you are suggesting is that they will re-design a car in
the name of Customer Goodwill, that isn't even broken. Not very likely I
believe.
I once had a steering rack on my 89 Sonata replaced under warranty but when
time came to pay the dealer wanted to charge for the alignment saying that
it was not covered under warranty. I paid the bill as I needed to leave but
I told them I'd be writing Hyundai. This I did claiming that it was foolish
to replace a part under warranty but not cover the alignment necessitated
by the replacement of that part. I got my money back. That was my 1st
Hyundai and I have had at least 1 Hyundai continuously since then - total 5
and counting.
Click to expand...

You don't see the difference between a complete warranty repair and a
customer who simply does not like the way the car operates? I don't see any
similarity between your experience - which is how that sort of experience
should work BTW, and what Dave was talking about. Dave simply does not like
the way his car operates, even though it's operating just as designed - no
problem with the car.

I think that they have to recognize that their business was built and
continues to be built on repeat customers and word of month.
Click to expand...

There business though, was not built on custom designing cars for people who
don't like certain things. Word of mouth isn't going to hurt them if
someone goes out bad mouthing Hyundai for not re-engineering a car at their
personal request.
Not fixing a simple 'perceived' (by the customer) idle problem is myopic.
Click to expand...

You just read in HT's post that it is not a "simple" 'perceived' problem.
In fact, it's not a problem at all. It's not simple either, if you read
what he wrote. It's far from myopic. What's myopic is thinking that every
little whim of some customer somewhere should be jumped on by engineering
teams in the name of making sure that customer is contented in every way.
 
2100 RPM is normal? I've not had any temperature under 25 degrees F
yet and my V6 has not approached that speed. I've never seen 2100 RPM
idle on any car I've ever owned no matter how cold. If every Sonata
V6 hits 2100 on start up, I'd agree, but if they are all programmed
the same way that 2100 would seem to be abnormal to me if the others
are a more normal 1200 or so.
Click to expand...

I have to agree here. My 2006 Sonata V6 was purchased in 9/2005. I've
made it through a complete winter already in my area of NJ, with
temperatures down to 0F and my car has never idled higher than what looks
like 1200-1300 RPM. It does the same in the middle of the summer, albeit
for a shorter amount of time.

Something is just not right here unless a few degrees difference can have
such an effect.

Eric
 
I largely agree with Mike here, but with much softer language on many
points.

But I mostly wanted to chime in and say that the dealer who replaced your
steering rack and insisted you pay for the alignment was ripping you off.
This wasn't a goodwill gesture on Hyundai's part, it was simply reminding
the dealer that the labor operation for replacing the steering rack
includes setting the front toe. In my opinion, Hyundai doesn't pay
enough labor time for setting toe, but that's a separate issue from
charging the customer for something that *is* covered by the warranty,
i.e. the necessary adjustments required when replacing a defective part.
 
'I can assure you, they wont . So sometimes you have to matters
into y our own hands to come up with a solution. '

Why won't they? You sometimes have to make a PITA of yourself. Call the
salesman every day about it. Call the service manager every day about
it. I'd be at the dealer every day until corrected. Parked right in
front of the bay door in the morning. Or parked across the street with a
sign on the car. Lots of ways to get a nuisance fixed.'

REPLY: They wont because its designed into the Hyundai and most likely
changing it would be considered 'tampering with emissions'.
 
'So you are saying that there is no idle screw or the throttle body and
the only way to change the idle is by re-programming the computer?'

REPLY: Im afraid the days of the carbureator are long gone ; theres no
idle screw in FI'd cars.
 
Reply to message from "hyundaitech" <[email protected]> (Fri, 10 Nov
2006 16:13:31) about "Re: 06 Sonata V6 cold start":

h> But I mostly wanted to chime in and say that the dealer who replaced
h> your steering rack and insisted you pay for the alignment was ripping
h> you off.

Actually I doubt it. I was on a first name basis with most of the people in
the dealership from the salesman to the owner to the customer service
manage and the mechanics. They did a lot quite a lot of work for me - a
picky customer - all under warranty.

Let me clarify one important point - the year was 1990 and this was in
Canada. The coverage was by Hyundai Auto Canada and it was 16 years ago
before warranties get to where they are today.

I still have good thoughts about that dealership. Bought 2 Hyundais from
them - the only dealership so far to get my repeat business.

h> In my opinion, Hyundai doesn't pay enough labor time

... period. Or at least so I was told by more than one Service Manager or
mechanic over the years. I guess they have to hold the line on cost
somehow.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:20:21 -0600

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
To update the issue somewhat, the "problem" I saw was happening in the
mid 30s. It has barely gotten to freezing once so far this winter.
Fall. Whatever season it is.

It hasn't had the "problem" lately, but then it's been somewhat warmer
too. The cold-cold doesn't come until January, which is around the
time of my next service date.
 
I agree that Hyundai doesn't pay enough labor time on warranty claims. But
that's also the case with every manufacturer I've ever encountered.

The dealer has an agreement with the manufacturer to provide warranty
service. It does not permit the dealer to charge the customer for
warranty service just because the dealer believes he's not getting enough
time from Hyundai.

In any event, I'm glad your issue was resolved and that you're happy with
the dealer.
 
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