0w 20 Oil??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hoof Hearted
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Hoof Hearted

I was at the local Wal-Mart seeing if the price of my Mobil 1 5w 20 went up
any and there in a nice green bottle was Mobil 1 0w 20 oil stating that it
protects the same as 5w 20?? Is this hype, trying to cash in on the green
bandwagon, or would it really give you better gas mileage like the bottle
says? I say it is probably a marketing scam.
 
Hoof Hearted said:
I was at the local Wal-Mart seeing if the price of my Mobil 1 5w 20 went up
any and there in a nice green bottle was Mobil 1 0w 20 oil stating that it
protects the same as 5w 20?? Is this hype, trying to cash in on the green
bandwagon, or would it really give you better gas mileage like the bottle
says? I say it is probably a marketing scam.
Click to expand...

If you say it is a marketing scam, show us some fact and figures.
Supposition does not matter much here.
 
How about if Mobil 1 shows me facts proving that I will get better mileage
using 0w 20 instead of 5w 20?
 
Hoof Hearted said:
How about if Mobil 1 shows me facts proving that I will get better mileage
using 0w 20 instead of 5w 20?
Click to expand...

Ask them. If you didn't, they you are just making up your idea of a
marketing scam. I'd imagine they have test data available to back up their
advertising claims while you have nothing but BS so far. You made a
statement that you can't back up. Until you do, you are just a marketing
scam yourself.
 
Hoof said:
I was at the local Wal-Mart seeing if the price of my Mobil 1 5w 20 went
up any and there in a nice green bottle was Mobil 1 0w 20 oil stating
that it protects the same as 5w 20?? Is this hype, trying to cash in on
the green bandwagon, or would it really give you better gas mileage like
the bottle says? I say it is probably a marketing scam.
Click to expand...

It's legit. 0 weight oils are commonly used in Europe, with 0W-40 being
more or less the "standard" there now.
 
There's no question it'll improve fuel economy. How much are and whether
it'll be noticeable are things I cannot answer. As others have alluded,
I'm sure others have done the tests and can back it up.

The idea is pretty simple, actually. Lighter weight oils have lower
viscosity and therefore result in less oil drag on engine components. Of
course, this doesn't imply everyone should put 0w-20 oil in their engines.
Use only the oil weights specified in your owner's manual for your
climate.
 
I,d stick with what the manufacturer of the car states.
They designed the car and specified an oil , the other mob design an oil and
then try to "fit" the car.
 
Hoof said:
Thanks, I assume with my 07 Elantra I should stick with the recommended
5w-20?
Click to expand...

That's the safe bet, but if the same engine is sold in a different
market and has different oil recommendations, either should work. I
don't know if that's the case here.
 
Brian Nystrom said:
That's the safe bet, but if the same engine is sold in a different market
and has different oil recommendations, either should work. I don't know if
that's the case here.
Click to expand...


Let's get down to cases. If you use Mobil "0" weight oil and your engine is
ruined, just how difficult do you think it will be to make Mobil pay for
your new engine?
 
mack said:
Let's get down to cases. If you use Mobil "0" weight oil and your engine
is ruined, just how difficult do you think it will be to make Mobil pay
for your new engine?
Click to expand...

Easy. Just provide the engine parts analysis, oil analysis and professional
engineer's findings. Cant take more than a couple of years to gather the
data.
 
mack said:
Let's get down to cases. If you use Mobil "0" weight oil and your engine is
ruined, just how difficult do you think it will be to make Mobil pay for
your new engine?
Click to expand...

Let's be realistic rather than paranoid, shall we? How likely are you to
EVER get ANY oil manufacturer to pay for ANY engine damage? For that
matter, how likely are you to EVER have ANY engine damage that's related
to oil FAILURE, as opposed to improper maintenance? Let's also keep in
mind that while 0W oils are not yet common here, they've been used in
Europe for years.

The difference between 0W-20 and 5W-20 is that the former flows better
at lower temperatures. That's it. They both have the same viscosity
rating at the high temp end of the scale and should therefore provide
the same protection/lubrication. The major advantage of the lighter base
stock would be most evident in colder climates and conditions, where it
would flow better and distribute faster, improving both fuel mileage and
cold-start lubrication. In warmer climates, the difference would be
negligible.
 
EP> If you say it is a marketing scam, show us some fact and figures.
EP> Supposition does not matter much here.

Ed, calm down. Hoof was merely putting out feelers as to what other group
member felt. At least that is how I read his post.

Look at the above again. He asked a question then made a suggestion based
on his initial feeling.

FWIW I saw the same oil and had a similar gut feeling. I felt that, as with
so many marketing campaigns these days, slapping the words "green''and
''organic" on products is good for business.

Regarding the oil, the only way I see it delivering on its claim is reduced
friction losses. Put the same weight of ''non green" synthetic next to it
in a test scenario and I bet any differences would be so insignificant as
to render the usage of "green''as BS.

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <[email protected]> Fri, 04 Apr 2008 07:25:14 -0500

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3
 
Wayne Moses said:
EP> If you say it is a marketing scam, show us some fact and figures.
EP> Supposition does not matter much here.

Ed, calm down. Hoof was merely putting out feelers as to what other group
member felt. At least that is how I read his post.

Look at the above again. He asked a question then made a suggestion based
on his initial feeling.
Click to expand...

At your request, I took the time to re-read the original question. I've not
changed my mind.
 
Is the '07 Elantra the first year of the re-design, or the last year of the
old one? And, in any case, did the engine change one bit during the
re-design (I get the impression the answer is 'no').

The Kia Spectra uses basically the exact same 2.0L engine. Mine specifies
5W20/30. That is a strange designation, but I have a hunch it means that
either 5/20 or 5/30 is acceptable. I use the 5/20 in Winter and 5/30 in
Summer, always using synthetic oil. I doubt I will have trouble, and also
doubt I will fiddle with a 0W weight, even in synthetic.

One more question about the 0W oils. Would that not cause a lot of problems
for things like valve cover gaskets? Through the years, I have already had
enough trouble, and enough cars that had oil seep through them at some
point, and that, of course, was heavier 5W oil. Maybe one more reason to
stick only with what the manufacturer recommends.
 
Rev. Tom Wenndt said:
Is the '07 Elantra the first year of the re-design, or the last year of the
old one? And, in any case, did the engine change one bit during the
re-design (I get the impression the answer is 'no').

The Kia Spectra uses basically the exact same 2.0L engine. Mine specifies
5W20/30. That is a strange designation, but I have a hunch it means that
either 5/20 or 5/30 is acceptable. I use the 5/20 in Winter and 5/30 in
Summer, always using synthetic oil. I doubt I will have trouble, and also
doubt I will fiddle with a 0W weight, even in synthetic.
Click to expand...

I don't blame you for not experimenting. I would try a 0 weight oil if
it wasn't for the fact that all I can find around here is Mobil one in
quarts, which costs double what I pay for the synthetic oil I've been
buying in 5 quart jugs.
One more question about the 0W oils. Would that not cause a lot of problems
for things like valve cover gaskets? Through the years, I have already had
enough trouble, and enough cars that had oil seep through them at some
point, and that, of course, was heavier 5W oil.
Click to expand...

Why would it make any difference? Once the oil is hot, the base weight
of the oil makes little or no difference. All xW-20 (or xW-30) oils are
going to be similar in viscosity when hot. In my experience, if a valve
cover gasket is installed onto a clean head and valve cover and the
bolts are properly tightened, it won't leak. If a leak does develop
(usually due either to the bolts loosening or being overtightened and
splitting the gasket) the only way to get rid of it reliably is to clean
the surfaces completely and replace the gasket.
 
Brian said:
I don't blame you for not experimenting. I would try a 0 weight oil if
it wasn't for the fact that all I can find around here is Mobil one in
quarts, which costs double what I pay for the synthetic oil I've been
buying in 5 quart jugs.


Why would it make any difference? Once the oil is hot, the base weight
of the oil makes little or no difference. All xW-20 (or xW-30) oils are
going to be similar in viscosity when hot. In my experience, if a valve
cover gasket is installed onto a clean head and valve cover and the
bolts are properly tightened, it won't leak. If a leak does develop
(usually due either to the bolts loosening or being overtightened and
splitting the gasket) the only way to get rid of it reliably is to clean
the surfaces completely and replace the gasket.
Click to expand...

I wish I knew if that were the case. I believe that oils are tested
only at two temperatures, and I believe (this is from memory so don't
take it to the bank) these are 0 and 100 degrees C. I'd like to see a
full viscosity vs. temperature as I'd be really surprised if the 0W20
oils were completely equivalent to 5W-20 at the hot end. There is no
free lunch and I'll bet you lose something at the top to gain at the
bottom temp range.

I don't own a car that allows both 0W20 and 5W20, but I have a 2003
Chrysler minivan that allows both 5W30 and 10W30. Since both are 30 at
the hot end, your argument above says that they are equivalent when hot,
right? However, the chart in my Chrysler owner's manual suggests
otherwise. The temperature range for the 5W30 runs from 100F downward
with an arrow that doesn't end. The range for 10W30 starts at 0F and
runs upward with no end. It runs past 100F whereas the 5W30 line ends
exactly at 100F. So, for temps above 100F, ONLY 10W30 is allowed.

I can't say that the same holds true for the 20 weight oils, but I have
a strong suspicion that it does.

So, yes, anyone can experiment if they want and use 0W20 in a car for
which only 5W20 is specified, but I wouldn't do that with my car, at
last not during the warranty period.

Matt
 
Matt Whiting said:
I wish I knew if that were the case. I believe that oils are tested only
at two temperatures, and I believe (this is from memory so don't take it
to the bank) these are 0 and 100 degrees C. I'd like to see a full
viscosity vs. temperature as I'd be really surprised if the 0W20 oils were
completely equivalent to 5W-20 at the hot end. There is no free lunch and
I'll bet you lose something at the top to gain at the bottom temp range.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the certifications are done at two temperatures, but I'd have to
think that major oil companies that spen millions of $$$ on research have
tried the oils at other temperatures and plotted curves. Any worthwile
engineer would have done that just out of curiosity.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. This "classic" method of
defining the "W" rating has since been replaced with a more technical test
where a "cold crank simulator" is used at increasingly lowered temps. A 0W
oil is tested at -35°C, a 5W at -30°C and a 10W is tested at -25°C. The
real-world ability of an oil to crank in the cold is diminished soon after
put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given
vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some
modern European cars now make no viscosity requirement), but can vary from
country to country when climatic or mpg constraints come into play. Oil
circulates through the piston oil rings to cool and lubricate the
compression rings. Inside gasoline engines, the top compression ring is
exposed to temperatures as high as 500°F.





but I have a 2003
Chrysler minivan that allows both 5W30 and 10W30. Since both are 30 at
the hot end, your argument above says that they are equivalent when hot,
right? However, the chart in my Chrysler owner's manual suggests
otherwise. The temperature range for the 5W30 runs from 100F downward
with an arrow that doesn't end. The range for 10W30 starts at 0F and runs
upward with no end. It runs past 100F whereas the 5W30 line ends exactly
at 100F. So, for temps above 100F, ONLY 10W30 is allowed.
Click to expand...

Sure, the typical owner's manual has a perfect engineering data and gives
exact specifications on such things. Matt, you know better. It is stated
that way to make it easy for consumers to decide what oil to buy. If you
happened to have 5W in the crankcase from your last change and suddenly
found yourself down south at 101 degrees, should you immediately shut down
the engine and have the car towed to an oil change shop?
 
Edwin said:
Perhaps the certifications are done at two temperatures, but I'd have to
think that major oil companies that spen millions of $$$ on research have
tried the oils at other temperatures and plotted curves. Any worthwile
engineer would have done that just out of curiosity.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
The governing SAE standard is called SAE J300. This "classic" method of
defining the "W" rating has since been replaced with a more technical test
where a "cold crank simulator" is used at increasingly lowered temps. A 0W
oil is tested at -35°C, a 5W at -30°C and a 10W is tested at -25°C. The
real-world ability of an oil to crank in the cold is diminished soon after
put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given
vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some
modern European cars now make no viscosity requirement), but can vary from
country to country when climatic or mpg constraints come into play. Oil
circulates through the piston oil rings to cool and lubricate the
compression rings. Inside gasoline engines, the top compression ring is
exposed to temperatures as high as 500°F.
Click to expand...

You don't trust your owner's manual, but you trust Wiki? That is really
funny! I haven't laughed this hard in a week!!

but I have a 2003

Sure, the typical owner's manual has a perfect engineering data and gives
exact specifications on such things. Matt, you know better. It is stated
that way to make it easy for consumers to decide what oil to buy. If you
happened to have 5W in the crankcase from your last change and suddenly
found yourself down south at 101 degrees, should you immediately shut down
the engine and have the car towed to an oil change shop?
Click to expand...

I never said it was "perfect engineering" data, whatever that is. I've
been an engineering for 25 years and I've never heard of such an animal.
However, the fact remains that the top end of the chart is different
and I suspect it is different for a reason. It would be easier for
Chrysler to just recommend 5W30 for ALL conditions and make it real easy
for the consumer to decide. The fact that they specify a different oil
for operation above 100F says to me that they feel 10W30 provides better
high temp protection than 5W30. I've seen no engineering data, perfect
or otherwise, that tells me how either oil performs across the full
temperature spectrum. I'd love to see it though, but in the meantime
I'm going to use the oil as specified in my owner's manual as that is
the best information I have ... almost certainly better than Wiki!!

Matt
 
Matt Whiting said:
You don't trust your owner's manual, but you trust Wiki? That is really
funny! I haven't laughed this hard in a week!!
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. The owners manual was in regard to two choices. Wiki
was in regard to testing methods that show more than two temperatures. They
do get some things right or at least close enough.

The fact that they specify a different oil for operation above 100F says
to me that they feel 10W30 provides better high temp protection than 5W30.
I've seen no engineering data, perfect or otherwise, that tells me how
either oil performs across the full temperature spectrum. I'd love to see
it though, but in the meantime I'm going to use the oil as specified in my
owner's manual as that is the best information I have ... almost certainly
better than Wiki!!
Click to expand...

You may be right, but the 100 degree cutoff as specified in the manual is
not accurate either. I'm confident that there is plenty of overlap near the
specified 100 degree mark. 5W will not suddenly fail at 101 degrees.
 
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