2001 XG300 Spark Plugs and the dealer

[Alan]

Recently my battery died and I had to replace it. Costco or BJs
didn't have one so I spent $150 in Sears. Then I brought it into the
dealer (big mistake) to check or change the transmission fluid. The
service manager called me and told me I needed to replace the fluid
and also replace the spark plugs and wires and that would cost $510. I
had just replaced the air sensor assembly for $450 with this dealer
and I was a little pissed to say the least. I told the service
manager that I am taking the car somewhere else and they charged me
for $100 for the diagnosis fee. I told the service manager that I
wasn't an idiot and the car's performance could not have deterioated
in one night, since the battery was changed. Unless the computer
needed to readjust itself. It was fine before except for the needing
the transmission fluid.

When I got the car back the check engine light was on and I don't
believe it was on before I brought it there but now I don't remember.
The engine sounded lousy, it smelled and it stalled or almost did at
stops. I believe the dealer did something to the car or maybe messed
around with the spark plug wires. I feel that this dealer is a thief
and whatever I do, in three months, something else will happen. The
car has only 47k miles, Hyundai replaced the transmission back in
July of 03, so when i ultimatey changed the ATF, at Aamco, with the
Diamond SP3, it was within the prescribed maintenance time

I wonder how hard it is to change the plugs and ignition wires. I
would also like to change the belts, except for the timing belt. I
used to do that simple stuff when I was a kid and I understand the
problem now is where the plugs are. I found this one the net:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you change the spark plugs on a 2001 xg300?
In: Hyundai XG300

The Nightmare of Changing Plugs

First assemble your tools, socket wrench etc and gapped sparkplugs.
if the sparkplugs are deep in the engine and you pull on the wires to
get the terminal off the plugs you will gasp in horror as the wires
pull in half. When the screaming stops pull all the wires off, at
least half will have pulled into two parts. then go to auto parts
store and get new wires. Using new wires change plugs in the usuall
manner. this is a true story. here's the real answer. Follow closely.

1. Remove the six 10mm bolts and remove the engine cover.
2. Unplug the air flow sensor connector and take the wiring loose from
the air bellows.
3. Remove the pcv breather hose from the air bellows.
4. Undo the clips holding the air box together.
5. Loosen the clamp holding the air bellows on the throttle body.
6. Remove the top of the air box, the airflow sensor, and the air
bellows as an assembly.
7. Undo any electrical connectors attaching to items on the plenum and
throttle body.
8. Move the harness out of the way enough that it'll allow you to lift
the plenum off. This may involve unplugging connectors in other places
and unclipping the harness from ties in order to get the necessary
slack.
9. Remove the vacuum line from the EGR valve and the fuel pressure
regulator (if you have one).
10. Remove the hose that goes toward the rear of the car from the
purge control valve.
11. Remove the four 12mm bolts attaching the support brackets to the
rear of the plenum and throttle body.
12. Remove the 12mm bolt attaching the EGR pipe bracket to the rear of
the plenum.
13. Remove the two 12mm bolts attaching the EGR valve to the plenum.
Take care to not lose the EGR gasket.
14. Remove the 12mm bolts and nuts (7 I think) attaching the plenum to
the lower manifold.
15. Lift the plenum off the manifold and tilt up the side opposite the
throttle body until it's standing close to vertical near the bottom
half of the air box. (There are still coolant hoses attached to the
throttle body, so you won't be able to lift that side very far). You
can use a bungee or other tie to hold the plenum so it can't fall back
down.
16. Cover the openings in the manifold with rags or something similar
to prevent anything from falling inside the engine.
17. Remove the spark plug wires.
18. Remove the rear spark plugs.
19. Install new spark plugs in the rear bank.
20. Remove the ignition coils (two 10mm bolts each).
21. Remove the front spark plugs.
22. Install new spark plugs in the front bank.
23. Reinstall the coils.
24. Install the new wires (connecting cylinders as described above).
25. Remove the rags from the intake manifold and remove the plenum
gasket.
26. Install the new plenum gasket.
27. Lower the plenum back onto the lower manifold.
28. Start the bolts and nuts attaching the plenum to the manifold, but
do not tighten them.
29. Start the bolts attaching the support brackets, the EGR pipe
bracket, and the EGR valve, being sure to properly align the EGR
gasket and reinstall the wire holder on the lower EGR valve bolt.
30. Tighten the bolts and nuts attaching the plenum to the manifold.
31. Tighten the bolts attaching the items on the rear of the plenum.
32. Reconnect your vacuum and purge hoses.
33. Reconnect your electrical connectors and return the harness to its
original configuration.
34. Reinstall the top of the air box, airflow sensor, and air bellows
and secure.
35. Reconnect the PCV breather hose.
36. Reconnect the airflow sensor connector and return the wiring to
its original holders and configuration.
37. Reinstall the engine cover and tighten the 6 bolts holding it in
place.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Just as a comparison, the Chilton/DIY online guide says:

1. Remove the engine cover

2. Disconnect the Variable Intake System (VIS) actuator and
connectors and the fuel injector connectors

3. Remove accelerator cables

4. Remove surge tank sub assembly

that's it compared to all the steps above...then it says renmove spark
plug cables and plus...check electrode gap of new plugs. To install,
reverse the removal procedures and tighten the plugs to 11 ft lbs
(15Nm)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could either do all this myself or perhaps bring it to a mechanic
who could give me a better price to do the plugs, wires, belts and
timing belt in one shot. The question is where to bring it.

Alan

 

[Partner]

Here's a web site with pictures of changing the plugs on a Santa fe. one
picture is worth a thousand words. I don't know what engine your xg has, but
these instructions worked perfectly for my 2003 sonata.
http://www.geocities.com/hennesseystealth/santafe.html

 

[Alan]

Partner, Wow, those are great pictures and I believe the 2001 xg300
is similar. I couldn't find them on the Web because I was searching
for XG300 Thank you so much.

I am saving this car for my daughter to drive because it's a good
heavy and safe car and letting the dealer go wild with repairs could
cost $5,000 with everything they could make happen. I don't know what
I would get for a trade but add that to all the repairs and you have a
substantial down payment on a brand new car. Plus, it brings me back
to the days of my 6 year old 1960 Olds 98 my cousin gave me when I was
in high school. I think the pictures are like the instructions I have
but nothing like what Chilton/diy had.

I am going to check for videos now but what a tremendous advantage
that pictures are. Without them I don't think I would have attempted
the spark plug change. Any suggestion for plus and wires? I believe
you have to stick with a specific Champion plug to maintain the
warranty but what about the wires and the plenum gasket> ...another
thing Chilton/diy doesn't tell you/

Alan

 

[hyundaitech]

Recently my battery died and I had to replace it.  Costco or BJs
didn't have one so I spent $150 in Sears.  Then I brought it into the
dealer (big mistake) to check or change the transmission fluid.  The
service manager called me and told me I needed to replace the fluid
and also replace the spark plugs and wires and that would cost $510. I
had just replaced the air sensor assembly for $450 with this dealer
and I was a little pissed to say the least.  I told the service
manager that I am taking the car somewhere else and they charged me
for $100 for the diagnosis fee.   I told the service manager that I
wasn't an idiot and the car's performance could not have deterioated
in one night, since the battery was changed.  Unless the computer
needed to readjust itself.  It was fine before except for the needing
the transmission fluid.

When I got the car back the check engine light was on and I don't
believe it was on before I brought it there but now I don't remember.
The engine sounded lousy, it smelled and it stalled or almost did at
stops.  I believe the dealer did something to the car or maybe messed
around with the spark plug wires.  I feel that this dealer is a thief
and whatever I do, in three months, something else will happen.  The
car has only 47k miles,  Hyundai replaced the transmission back in
July of 03, so when i ultimatey changed the ATF, at Aamco, with the
Diamond  SP3, it was within the prescribed maintenance time

It seems like part of the story is missing here, Alan. You took your
car to the dealer after the battery replacement only for a replacement
of the transmission fluid?? If that's the case, I don't understand
why there would be a diagnostic fee at all-- you'd have been quoted
the price of the job up front. And I don't understand why you refer
to a performance issue. Was there a peformance issue after the
battery replacement that you asked the dealer to diagnose? If so,
what was this issue?

As for the actual job of changing the spark plugs, the long list of
instructions above is rather complete. Don't expect a price break on
doing the spark plugs and timing belt at the same time. There's so
little overlap between these two jobs as to be negligible.
Recommended plug replacement is at 60k miles.

 

[Alan]

Hyundaimech,

Yep, yep, it's been a few weeks since I did it and I forgot. The
check engine light came on and the car began to react the same way it
did when I replaced the air sensor assembly 2 months earlier for $450.
It began to stall at stops. Previous to the battery change the car
was riding smoothly and the only problem I was having was a little
kick when backing down the drive way and switching into forward in the
very cold weather. That stopped totally after the fluid change, which
was after I took the car back from Hyundai and went to Aamco.

So, to summarize, right after the battery was replaced at Sears, the
performance and the"almost stalling" began again just like it had done
when the air sensor assembly was replaced less than 90 days earlier. I
got the feeling that the new air sensor assembly was bad and they
would have to replace it for free, so why not invent something like
the plugs needing to be replaced and charge me $510 more. It there
was deteriorating performance before the battery died, then I'd have
to believe the service manager but since the car was riding so well,
with great pickup, I thought he was lying and I told him that I am not
stupid and I wouldn't fall for a story like that. Which pissed him
off. Could the bad battery have killed the plugs? If not, the guy
was lying and he thought he saw that this car would bring the
dealership an annuity, as sooner or later they would have to replace
almost everything that is not in the power train guaranty.

 

[hyundaitech]

Hyundaimech,

Yep, yep, it's been a few weeks since I did it and I forgot.  The
check engine light came on and the car began to react the same way it
did when I replaced the air sensor assembly 2 months earlier for $450.
It began to stall at stops.  Previous to the battery change the car
was riding smoothly and the only problem I was having was a little
kick when backing down the drive way and switching into forward in the
very cold weather.  That stopped totally after the fluid change, which
was after I took the car back from Hyundai and went to Aamco.  

So, to summarize, right after the battery was replaced at Sears, the
performance and the"almost stalling" began again just like it had done
when the air sensor assembly was replaced less than 90 days earlier. I
got the feeling that the new air sensor assembly was bad and they
would have to replace it for free, so why not invent something like
the plugs needing to be replaced and charge me $510 more.  It there
was deteriorating performance before the battery died, then I'd have
to believe the service manager but since the car was riding so well,
with great pickup, I thought he was lying and I told him that I am not
stupid and I wouldn't fall for a story like that.  Which pissed him
off.  Could the bad battery have killed the plugs?  If not, the guy
was lying and he thought he saw that this car would bring the
dealership an annuity, as sooner or later they would have to replace
almost everything that is not in the power train guaranty.

I'm in no position to decide whether the dealer was lying to you, but
here's what I can say:

You were charged a diagnostic fee because the dealer diagnosed your
vehicle and you elected to not have the repairs done.
If Sears did not reinitialize the throttle, then that could
potentially cause a stalling (or near stall) issue.
Defective spark plugs can also cause a near-stall issue.
The fact that the check engine lamp illuminated indicates that the ECM
detected some sort of problem.
A defective battery cannot cause failure of the spark plugs. This
does not imply that the spark plugs cannot fail at the same time (or
nearly the same time) as the battery.
If your car is now running properly, the check engine lamp is off and
is staying off, and the plugs have not yet been replaced, it's a safe
bet that the plugs are not the cause of the problem.
If your engine is misfiring, you can damage your catalytic converter.

 

[Alan]

What do you mean by re-initialize the throttle....whatever that is, I
am sure they didn't do it.

Now, the car is not running properly at all. It lacks power and
almost stalls at stops. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer did
something to make sure that would happen because the car was running
great, except for the battery and after the battery was replaced it
started to run badly and the check engine light came on and is still
on. Maybe all that had to be done is to re-initialize the throttle
but that's not a big enough job.

How do you re-initialize the throttle? Is that like raising the idle
speed? Perhaps the throttle needed to be reinitialized and when the
dealer got it they decided to go for a shot at me falling for having
the plugs replaced. I hate to be so cynical but none of this makes
sense to me...the car was running too well before the battery was
replaced.

Then what happens if the car is still not right after they replaced
the plugs and wires, after my spending $554, or I do it myself, and
after the air sensor was just replaced for $450? What would they try
next.

I need to order the plugs, the wires and the plenum gasket. Any
suggestions where to get that? I know for the plugs I need Champion
RC10PYP4 but what kind of wires and gasket?

Also, I want to get one of the diagnostic computers. I think they are
about $50. Which are the best to get?

 

[Mike Marlow]

What do you mean by re-initialize the throttle....whatever that is, I
am sure they didn't do it.

Now, the car is not running properly at all. It lacks power and
almost stalls at stops. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer did
something to make sure that would happen because the car was running
great, except for the battery and after the battery was replaced it
started to run badly and the check engine light came on and is still
on. Maybe all that had to be done is to re-initialize the throttle
but that's not a big enough job.

You've got to give up on your conspriacy theories. Yeah - dealers all over
the place sabatoge customer's cars so they can get the service money out of
the customer. You just stated that the car ran badly after the batter
replacement, which was done before you went to the dealer. For the love of
Pete - are you really serious with this stuff?

How do you re-initialize the throttle? Is that like raising the idle
speed? Perhaps the throttle needed to be reinitialized and when the
dealer got it they decided to go for a shot at me falling for having
the plugs replaced. I hate to be so cynical but none of this makes
sense to me...the car was running too well before the battery was
replaced.

You don't seem to have a grasp on how cars work, so it's not surprising that
none of this makes any sense to you. You need to read hyundaitech's reply
to you again - he gave you answers in that reply.

Then what happens if the car is still not right after they replaced
the plugs and wires, after my spending $554, or I do it myself, and
after the air sensor was just replaced for $450? What would they try
next.

They'd problably stick a hidden camera in the A-pillar so that they could
capture your ATM PIN and steal all of your money out of your bank account.
It's much faster that way - no need to have you come in for service.

 

[hyundaitech]

What do you mean by re-initialize the throttle....whatever that is, I
am sure they didn't do it.

This means to have the ECM relearn the throttle position at idle both
without loads on and again with A/C on. Without this information, the
ECM may allow the idle to dip too low and the engine can stall.

Now, the car is not running properly at all.  It lacks power and
almost stalls at stops.  I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer did
something to make sure that would happen because the car was running
great, except for the battery and after the battery was replaced it
started to run badly and the check engine light came on and is still
on.  Maybe all that had to be done is to re-initialize the throttle
but that's not a big enough job.

This is the thing that makes me think the dealer had nothing to do
with this. You say the vehicle was running poorly prior to even
taking the car to the dealer. Why would you think they did something
to it if it was not running well prior to it ever arriving at the
dealer? Doesn't seem logical.

How do you re-initialize the throttle?  Is that like raising the idle
speed?  Perhaps the throttle needed to be reinitialized and when the
dealer got it they decided to go for a shot at me falling for having
the plugs replaced.  I hate to be so cynical but none of this makes
sense to me...the car was running too well before the battery was
replaced.  

First, you'd need to do a throttle sweep so the ECM can calibrate
throttle plate position to TPS reading. Then, you'd need to have the
car idle for a significant period of time at operating temperature,
once with the A/C off, and then again with the A/C on.

Then what happens if the car is still not right after they replaced
the plugs and wires, after my spending $554, or I do it myself, and
after the air sensor was just replaced for $450?  What would they try
next.  

You'd need to ask the dealer. If they're sure the plugs/wires are the
problem, they're not likely to have any issue guaranteeing that'll fix
your issue (but not that some other problem causing the same or
similar symptoms won't occur at a later time). Ask the dealer
straight up. If replacing the plugs/wires doesn't fix it, will they
still charge you?

I need to order the plugs, the wires and the plenum gasket.  Any
suggestions where to get that?  I know for the plugs I need Champion
RC10PYP4 but what kind of wires and gasket?

I know Mike disagrees with me on this, but I'm sold on factory wires.
You should be able to find the Champion (or equivalent NGK, which I
prefer) plugs at your local auto parts store. As for the plenum
gasket, it's pretty basic. Just needs to seal. Anyone's plenum
gasket should do that.

Also, I want to get one of the diagnostic computers.  I think they are
about $50.  Which are the best to get?

For $50, the most you'll get is a code reader. Based on your
posting, I'd say this would be of minimal value to you. I don't
intend to be critical of your knowledge, and I've certainly not met
you in person to get a better idea, but so far I think I have to agree
with Mike that it seems you lack a basic understanding of how the
systems of the car operate, and in this specific case, what's
occurring and what a misfire feels like. Even knowing the trouble
code, you still need to know how to examine the components and wiring
to find the source of the problem reported by the ECM.

I know auto repairs are expensive, but it can be even more expensive
guessing at what the problem may be. If you look through my posts,
you'll see several replies to the generic "I have code Pxxxx. What's
wrong with my car?" What you'll find is that in some cases I'll tell
the poster to make a particular repair, and in other cases, I'll tell
the poster which things need to be checked to find the problem. In
both cases, my reply is based on my experience and knowledge of common
failures.

 

[ceragem]

Dear Alan,

I have a 2001 XG 300 with 190K kms on it. The dealer usually give customers
discount on their repair service. I let them to replace the timing belt, had
a full tune up included replace all spark plugs and wires, replaced and
flush all fluids, and check and overhaul all brakes. The total cost was
$1800.- It worth it for the XG is a heavy but a safe car. I got around 15%
off from the total bill. They even provide me a few car wash coupons as
their compliments. I know auto repairs are expensive, however I would trust
the fellows that trained by the manufacturer that would keep the vehicles
back to their standards.

Parousia
"hyundaitech" <[email protected]>
???????:7b57d198-b255-4f04-b39a-ca6091f5bf2d@r31g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

What do you mean by re-initialize the throttle....whatever that is, I
am sure they didn't do it.

This means to have the ECM relearn the throttle position at idle both
without loads on and again with A/C on. Without this information, the
ECM may allow the idle to dip too low and the engine can stall.

Now, the car is not running properly at all. It lacks power and
almost stalls at stops. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer did
something to make sure that would happen because the car was running
great, except for the battery and after the battery was replaced it
started to run badly and the check engine light came on and is still
on. Maybe all that had to be done is to re-initialize the throttle
but that's not a big enough job.

This is the thing that makes me think the dealer had nothing to do
with this. You say the vehicle was running poorly prior to even
taking the car to the dealer. Why would you think they did something
to it if it was not running well prior to it ever arriving at the
dealer? Doesn't seem logical.

How do you re-initialize the throttle? Is that like raising the idle
speed? Perhaps the throttle needed to be reinitialized and when the
dealer got it they decided to go for a shot at me falling for having
the plugs replaced. I hate to be so cynical but none of this makes
sense to me...the car was running too well before the battery was
replaced.

First, you'd need to do a throttle sweep so the ECM can calibrate
throttle plate position to TPS reading. Then, you'd need to have the
car idle for a significant period of time at operating temperature,
once with the A/C off, and then again with the A/C on.

Then what happens if the car is still not right after they replaced
the plugs and wires, after my spending $554, or I do it myself, and
after the air sensor was just replaced for $450? What would they try
next.

You'd need to ask the dealer. If they're sure the plugs/wires are the
problem, they're not likely to have any issue guaranteeing that'll fix
your issue (but not that some other problem causing the same or
similar symptoms won't occur at a later time). Ask the dealer
straight up. If replacing the plugs/wires doesn't fix it, will they
still charge you?

I need to order the plugs, the wires and the plenum gasket. Any
suggestions where to get that? I know for the plugs I need Champion
RC10PYP4 but what kind of wires and gasket?

I know Mike disagrees with me on this, but I'm sold on factory wires.
You should be able to find the Champion (or equivalent NGK, which I
prefer) plugs at your local auto parts store. As for the plenum
gasket, it's pretty basic. Just needs to seal. Anyone's plenum
gasket should do that.

Also, I want to get one of the diagnostic computers. I think they are
about $50. Which are the best to get?

For $50, the most you'll get is a code reader. Based on your
posting, I'd say this would be of minimal value to you. I don't
intend to be critical of your knowledge, and I've certainly not met
you in person to get a better idea, but so far I think I have to agree
with Mike that it seems you lack a basic understanding of how the
systems of the car operate, and in this specific case, what's
occurring and what a misfire feels like. Even knowing the trouble
code, you still need to know how to examine the components and wiring
to find the source of the problem reported by the ECM.

I know auto repairs are expensive, but it can be even more expensive
guessing at what the problem may be. If you look through my posts,
you'll see several replies to the generic "I have code Pxxxx. What's
wrong with my car?" What you'll find is that in some cases I'll tell
the poster to make a particular repair, and in other cases, I'll tell
the poster which things need to be checked to find the problem. In
both cases, my reply is based on my experience and knowledge of common
failures.

 

[Elmo Finsterwald]

Do exactly as I am going to do when mine runs out of warranty and mine is a
2002 XG350..... with 37,000 miles on it. In 2012 when the warranty expires,
I will drive it until the check engine soon light comes on. At that point
it will not be worth spending the ridiculous prices charged for repairs and
I will either drive it to or have it towed to a salvage yard for whatever I
can get out of it for scrap.

 

[Alan]

Mike,

As far as conspiracy theories, I have seen more incompetence in every
facet of life than I care to believe. Why should Car Dealers be any
different, especially at a time when their income is not what they
expected.

As far as the performance of the car, let me restate it. The car was
running great after the air sensor was replaced in Jan or Feb 09.
Pickup was good and the engine sounded smooth. That continued up and
until the battery was replaced. On the way home from Sears, the car
was trying like hell to stall at every stop. Before thinking that I
am Oliver Stone, perhaps **not re-initializing the throttle** was THAT
problem. Maybe if that was done, there would not have been any more
problems. But I didn't know that and Sears should have.

So, the car was almost stalling when I brought it in to the dealer and
the check engine light was on. Perhaps that was the throttle problem.
The stalling was the problem but before the dealer got his hands on
the car BUT there was no problem with the smoothness of the engine or
the smell of gas when I stopped the car. That all happened AFTER I
picked up the car from the dealer and after his so called diagnostic
test that said the car was misfiring. The car was not misfiring, as
far as I could tell before the dealer got it and afterward the car
sounded like it had Bronchitis. I know the difference.

The other possibility is that the when they did their diagnostic test
and I told him I did not want him to change the plugs, he said he'd
have to put everything back. I don't know what that meant. I am not
sure what his $99 diagnostic test involved. I'd bet it was just that
little computer that you can buy for $50 and I'm pretty confident he
didn't take the plugs and wires out to look them. However, if he
wanted to, I am sure he could do something to either the plugs and the
wires that are easy to get to that would cause misfires.

So, I am no mechanic, we know that, but I am also not an idiot. After
seeing bankers, stock brokers, doctors, mechanics, lawyers, judges,
newspaper people and politicians do things that make you want to shoot
them, why would I not think a dealer is not just as prone to doing for
himself even if it means screwing the customers, clients or patients.
I know the car was fine, except for the stalling before the dealer got
it and after the dealer gave me the car back it sounded congested and
smelled.

Maybe I don't want to get taken for one thing after another and
something like changing the plugs is something I can do. If it
doesn't fix the problem, I am giving a different dealer the car with
new wires and plugs and I will check the computer codes myself. So
for less than $200 I get the plugs, the wires, the gasket and the
computer and go into the next phase a little better prepared.

 

[Alan]

This means to have the ECM relearn the throttle position at idle both
without loads on and again with A/C on. Without this information, the
ECM may allow the idle to dip too low and the engine can stall.

So, is it possible I never should have brought the car in and instead
run it for awhile as the ECM relearns the car?

This is the thing that makes me think the dealer had nothing to do
with this. You say the vehicle was running poorly prior to even
taking the car to the dealer. Why would you think they did something
to it if it was not running well prior to it ever arriving at the
dealer? Doesn't seem logical.


First, you'd need to do a throttle sweep so the ECM can calibrate
throttle plate position to TPS reading. Then, you'd need to have the
car idle for a significant period of time at operating temperature,
once with the A/C off, and then again with the A/C on.


You'd need to ask the dealer. If they're sure the plugs/wires are the
problem, they're not likely to have any issue guaranteeing that'll fix
your issue (but not that some other problem causing the same or
similar symptoms won't occur at a later time). Ask the dealer
straight up. If replacing the plugs/wires doesn't fix it, will they
still charge you?

But then as he once told me when the air sensor was replaced, the bad
air sensor could cause something else to go wrong. Maybe that's true
but I am so disbelieving because plugs and wires cannot go in a day
and the car was smooth but stalling before the dealer got it and
afterward it was still stalling AND the car sounded like it had
Bronchitis and smelled of gas after I stopped.

One other thing happened occasionally, when I was driving on the
highway for any length of time and got off at a short exit, the car
would sometimes shake a little when I had to come to a quick stop.
That was before anything happened. It rarely happened but did
sometimes, can that mean anything?

I know Mike disagrees with me on this, but I'm sold on factory wires.
You should be able to find the Champion (or equivalent NGK, which I
prefer) plugs at your local auto parts store. As for the plenum
gasket, it's pretty basic. Just needs to seal. Anyone's plenum
gasket should do that.

NGK will not void the guarantee on the drive train?

For $50, the most you'll get is a code reader. Based on your
posting, I'd say this would be of minimal value to you. I don't
intend to be critical of your knowledge, and I've certainly not met
you in person to get a better idea, but so far I think I have to agree
with Mike that it seems you lack a basic understanding of how the
systems of the car operate, and in this specific case, what's
occurring and what a misfire feels like. Even knowing the trouble
code, you still need to know how to examine the components and wiring
to find the source of the problem reported by the ECM.

Minimal value is correct but if I get reading that says it's a P9999
and the dealer says it was a P5555, something is wrong someplace. I
want to go in a little bit armed with some knowledge.

As far as basic knowledge, it might not hurt to learn how to take car
of your own car or at least know some of its idiosyncrasies because
dealerships will be closing all over. I don't know about Hyundai but
certainly Chrysler and GM will be closing many.

I know auto repairs are expensive, but it can be even more expensive
guessing at what the problem may be. If you look through my posts,
you'll see several replies to the generic "I have code Pxxxx. What's
wrong with my car?" What you'll find is that in some cases I'll tell
the poster to make a particular repair, and in other cases, I'll tell
the poster which things need to be checked to find the problem. In
both cases, my reply is based on my experience and knowledge of common
failures.

I can understand that but before I started this ex cerise, I had no
idea what made my car tick. I still haven't learned that much yet and
there are still many many more things that I cannot do than I can do.
I think changing the plugs and the wires and the air filter are about
it. But it's fun to learn from great people like you and the either
people here like Mike, etc and it makes us feel less vulnerable.

 

[Alan]

You are absolutely right but when you start off not trusting them,
that's not a good sign. I agree there is something safe about using a
dealer. Years ago we had a Maxima that we took to our local mechanic
who we liked very. He placed the alternator and it continued to
fail. Then he sent the car to a place called Flushing Electric and
they traced shorts etc that could be killing the alternator. We
brought the car back to them 3 times and then we went to a Nissan
dealer and told them what was happening and they said that they had a
bulliten from Nissan that said whenever you replace the alternator to
you always have to replace the electrical harness with it. Bingo,
that did it.

However, I'd be willing to bet that changing these plugs and wires was
not the problem, it may be now, but it wasn't before the dealer got
it. When I do replace them soon, I will look for gap errors, junk on
the plugs and/or cut or loose wires and if I find them I will...well I
am not sure what I will do but the dealer will not be happy.

Alan

 

[Alan]

Well Elmo,

I am not sure that I would do what you would do but you are right,
after the 10 years is up, you have to be a little nuts to put big
money into these cars because a new transmission (I already had one
replaced) or engine (I once had to replace an engine on a Mitsubishi
Galant at 26,000 miles and it cost $2,500) is not worth the residual
value. What bugs me about the car is that you can see how Hyundai
chinced out on the leather and didn't put enough on the seats. I
noticed the driver's side left air vent is popping out and even the
dash bumper seems to be separating.

I do love the way the car handles on wet bridges and it's heavy and
safe. I have a new Maxima and the XG300 was never that good a car
even though the sales people said, back in 2001, it was not competing
against the Camry, the Avalon (which I had before the Hyundai) or the
Maxima but against the higher end Lexus 350 and the Infinity. Yeah
right. In retrospect the three or four thousand I saved by buying the
XG300 over the Maxima was certainly lost in residual value but the
guaranty makes up for that. In my next car, I would want a long power
train guaranty from a stable company.

The question is, with the economy such as it is, what do you buy or
lease? Leasing looks a lot better than buying these days unless you
get an incredible bargain. I wonder which car is the easiest to fix
or have fixed if there are no dealers and no extended warranties.

Alan

 

[hyundaitech]

So, is it possible I never should have brought the car in and instead
run it for awhile as the ECM relearns the car?

I don't think I'd say "should have." Perhaps "could have." In any
case, you shouldn't be expected to. Sears should have done this, and
they should have known to do it.

But then as he once told me when the air sensor was replaced, the bad
air sensor could cause something else to go wrong.  

This is BS. This one statement makes me think maybe they didn't know
if the air flow sensor was the actual problem and were opening the
door to be able to charge you for more repairs later. A faulty air
flow sensor can make your car run poorly, but it cannot damage other
components.

Maybe that's true
but I am so disbelieving because plugs and wires cannot go in a day
and the car was smooth but stalling before the dealer got it and
afterward it was still stalling AND the car sounded like it had
Bronchitis and smelled of gas after I stopped.

One other thing happened occasionally, when I was driving on the
highway for any length of time and got off at a short exit, the car
would sometimes shake a little when I had to come to a quick stop.
That was before anything happened.  It rarely happened but did
sometimes, can that mean anything?

It sounds like maybe you had a misfire problem developing or perhaps
an EGR solenoid sticking open. If it were the misfire and you had a
misfire code stored in the PCM, that would explain the dealer checking
the plugs and surmising the plugs were potentially the issue,
especially if by the time the car got to them, the throttle had
already self-learned.

NGK will not void the guarantee on the drive train?

Not unless they cause a powertrain failure. Note that the plugs are
not considered powertrain components. Furthermore, either the factory
originals or replacements (can't remember which) are NGK.

Minimal value is correct but if I get reading that says it's a P9999
and the dealer says it was a P5555, something is wrong someplace.  I
want to go in a little bit armed with some knowledge.

That's something, but I seriously doubt most dealers would
misrepresent this. The vast majority of misrepairs I see are from
poor diagnosis or technicians being uneducated about proper repair
procedures. Very rarely do I see a car sabotaged or misrepaired with
any sort of malicious intent. Nearly all technicians are at least
attempting to do a good repair job. I can guarantee you that the
dealer did not use a $50 code reader to diagnose your car. The dealer
is required by Hyundai to have a $3000 scan tool and a separate
diagnostic laptop which costs about $9000. The use of the equipement
is part of the reason you're charged a diagnostic fee.

As far as basic knowledge, it might not hurt to learn how to take car
of your own car or at least know some of its idiosyncrasies because
dealerships will be closing all over.  I don't know about Hyundai but
certainly Chrysler and GM will be closing many.  

Having some knowledge of your car is a great idea under nearly any
circumstance.

 

[Alan]

I just priced the parts and the plugs, the wires and the plenum gasket
were $152.42 from the dealer where I bought the car (another one
opened closer, and that is the one I took the car to because I could
get a ride back). That is before I buy the computer and the torque
wrench. I already spent that $100 which I believe that would apply to
this job (but maybe not), so I am at $252.42 plus the computer and the
wrench...another $75 so that is $325. If I go back to the dealer it
will cost me $510 plus tax or about $550. I'll save $225, learn
something about the car, walk away with a computer and a torque wrench
and the a chance to have something fall into the intake manifold and
blow the engine! Just kidding about the last one. It's not a lot of
money but it is the principle of it all and the fact that it might be
fun to do this. If worse come to worse, I can call the AAA and ask
them to tow the car to a gas station or a dealer.

I am going to get all the parts from the dealer since the prices were
fairly good $11.22 for the plenum gasket, 50.88 for the wires and
$13.19 for the plugs plus tax. Or I can get the better NGK PFR5N-11
plugs and the NGK KRX009 Wires and the gasket for a little more from
Amazon.

Alan

 

[Mike Marlow]

I just priced the parts and the plugs, the wires and the plenum gasket
were $152.42 from the dealer where I bought the car (another one
opened closer, and that is the one I took the car to because I could
get a ride back). That is before I buy the computer and the torque
wrench. I already spent that $100 which I believe that would apply to
this job (but maybe not), so I am at $252.42 plus the computer and the
wrench...another $75 so that is $325. If I go back to the dealer it
will cost me $510 plus tax or about $550. I'll save $225, learn
something about the car, walk away with a computer and a torque wrench
and the a chance to have something fall into the intake manifold and
blow the engine! Just kidding about the last one. It's not a lot of
money but it is the principle of it all and the fact that it might be
fun to do this. If worse come to worse, I can call the AAA and ask
them to tow the car to a gas station or a dealer.

I am going to get all the parts from the dealer since the prices were
fairly good $11.22 for the plenum gasket, 50.88 for the wires and
$13.19 for the plugs plus tax. Or I can get the better NGK PFR5N-11
plugs and the NGK KRX009 Wires and the gasket for a little more from
Amazon.

Alan

Way to go Alan. No better way to learn than to grenade a car of two.
Joking, of course... Do yourself a favor and get yourself a free account on
the Hyundai web site. You'll need IE since it does not recognize Firefox.
Complete service information at your fingertips (well - with a little
searching...) and all for free.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

Way to go Alan. No better way to learn than to grenade a car of two.
Joking, of course... Do yourself a favor and get yourself a free account
on the Hyundai web site.

Mike forgot the link. www.hmaservice.com not the regular Hyundai site.

 

[Alan Calan]

I bought the plugs, wires and the gasket for Hyundai. One thing
suprised me and that was that there were only 3 wires. They guy in
parts said that the other three are connected to three coils and the
three wires are connected to those three coils too.

When looking on Amazon.com for the parts there was a set of NGK wires
forthe XG300 that were $80 plus dollars while the some of the other
NGK sets were about $50 for 6 wires.

It seems as though the NGK wires are only three also that are
connected to the three coils that are connected to the other three
plugs They look like good wires:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/wire_sets/wiresets.asp

So, I also realize now that these three coils have to come off to get
to the three plugs under them. Don't these coils go bad. They guy at
Hyundai said they rarely go bad and they are very expensive to
replace. God help that other dealer if he did something to the coils.

Just as a little aside about supidity and incompetence, I had a new
pool heater installed the other day and no I never thought of doing it
myself. However, this new heater has the wires coming in higher than
the original one. The wires were long enough but the flexible pvc
tubing was too short. The installer tells me I have to call an
electrician for that. I said to you him, "You must be kidding. I
have to pay $300 for an electrcian to come here look at the job and
then get his assisstant to paste up an extension? I learned how to
paste things in first grade."

I was pissed off they didn't carry the tubing, connectors and pvc glue
with them. So for $2.11, I got 2 ft of tubing and two connectors and
for $4.50 I got the pvc glue. One of the owners of the pool company
said they would rewire the heater if I got the tubing because he went
to Home Depot and said they have nothing there that would help. Duh!
Well, they have a 25 ft roll for $9.00 and they had the connecters and
the glue. But what is so bad about the underlying story is, they
should have told us 11 years ago to add calcium to the water. That
probably would have kept the heater alive for at least a few more
years and would have prevented the $3,600 "marble dusting" (white
cement) of the spa and the pool main drain.

Alan