2002 Sonata - Hubcaps piercing Tire Valves

[Michael Abbaticchio]

This is a rather strange problem. Recently brought car to Sears for 4 new tires. About one week, later found drivers side front flat, leaking out of valve stem. Installed donut and brought car back to Sears for a tire remount. A few days later, same thing on same tire.

After the second time I noticed that the Hub Cap was putting quite a bit of pressure on the valve stem, after re-installing the hub cap and driving a few miles. Seems that the hub caps are turning on the rims, and piercing the tire valve stems. I removed the hubcap from that wheel.

After incurring one more pierced stem on a different wheel, I removed all the hub caps from the car.

Anyone ever heard of this ???????? Not sure whether I should bring the car to the dealer for this, as it seems to be a huge safety issue if it is happening to others who have changed tires. Perhaps the wheel weights were different from the factory????? . Any opinions on this?

 

[Brian Nystrom]

This is a rather strange problem. Recently brought car to Sears for 4 new tires. About one week, later found drivers side front flat, leaking out of valve stem. Installed donut and brought car back to Sears for a tire remount. A few days later, same thing on same tire.

After the second time I noticed that the Hub Cap was putting quite a bit of pressure on the valve stem, after re-installing the hub cap and driving a few miles. Seems that the hub caps are turning on the rims, and piercing the tire valve stems. I removed the hubcap from that wheel.

After incurring one more pierced stem on a different wheel, I removed all the hub caps from the car.

Anyone ever heard of this ???????? Not sure whether I should bring the car to the dealer for this, as it seems to be a huge safety issue if it is happening to others who have changed tires. Perhaps the wheel weights were different from the factory????? . Any opinions on this?

I haven't heard of reports of this elsewhere. Could it be that the mechanic at Sears damage the hubcap attachment mechanisms? I can't see how else they could rotate on the wheels.

Also, it could be that they're just mounted wrong. In many cases, there is only one cutout in the hubcap that will work properly with the valve. If you look a the back side of the hubcap, there should be a section of the retaining hoop with a jog in it to clear the valve. That must be installed over the valve. If the cutout is not properly positioned relative to the jog in the hoop, the hoop can be slid around until it aligns correctly.

If either of these is the problem, Sears should cover the cost of the repairs.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

The hub cap is being positioned with the valve stem aligned within the cutout valve. The problem is the hub cap shifting position, an applying pressure on the valve stem, while the car is moving..

I doubt they are being installed incorrectly. I replaced the front brake pads on the car last year and had no problem.

Something changed with the new tires. I suspect that maybe the old wheel balancing weights might have been a different shape and prevented the hub caps from shifting position.

I was just curious if the problem was wide spread.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

Actually, I did find a link to an account of someone who had the same exact problem with Hyundai.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/hyundai_misc.html

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Actually, I did find a link to an account of someone who had the same exact problem with Hyundai.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/hyundai_misc.html

Interesting. It doesn't sound like it's widespread, so your dealer may not have heard of it. You might be best off to contact Hyundai directly.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

Yea... I am going to try Hyundai. Thanks..

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

Did some additional research to find several others with this problem. The problem is actually caused by the edge of the hubcap making slight contact with the bulge at the bottom of the tire. As the tire spins, the bulge moves and drags the hubcap in the direction of the wheel rotation. Seems that there are some slight variations from brand to brand in tire width. Anyway you look at this I think that the manufacturer should have assumed people will change tire brands and made the hubcaps more forgiving or at least used the type that screws into the wheel studs. This is a potential safety issue. After calling Hyundai Consumer Affairs and receiving no sympathy, I filed a complaint with the DOT... http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ against Hyundai, and intend to do the same against B.F. Goodrich. I hope that this will at least get the problem looked at, as I suspect without a neutral party, this thing will escalate into a blame game, which I do not care to be the center of. If the model tire Sears installed has a known issue than perhaps Sears is at fault, but I can't seem to find any advisories against Goodrich tires on a 2002 Sonata. Hyundai has admintted awareness of one other case but faulted the tire, but than stated that it is OK to switch brand for replacement tires. At this point I am mostly interested in preventing other Sonata owners from getting injured or killed.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Did some additional research to find several others with this problem. The problem is actually caused by the edge of the hubcap making slight contact with the bulge at the bottom of the tire. As the tire spins, the bulge moves and drags the hubcap in the direction of the wheel rotation. Seems that there are some slight variations from brand to brand in tire width.

Interesting. That certainly makes sense.

Anyway you look at this I think that the manufacturer should have assumed people will change tire brands and made the hubcaps more forgiving or at least used the type that screws into the wheel studs.

Have you been able to determine if this is a problem with all Sonata hubcaps or just the style used on your model year and trim level? Perhaps you could even get your dealer or Hyundai to cover the cost of different hubcaps.

Are the hubcaps metal or plastic? If they're the former, Perhaps they could be carefully reshaped to increase clearance. If the latter, perhaps a small amount of material could be removed the the area that's contacting the tires.

This is a potential safety issue.

I agree. It should be made known to other Sonata owners.

After calling Hyundai Consumer Affairs and receiving no sympathy, I filed a complaint with the DOT... http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ against Hyundai, and intend to do the same against B.F. Goodrich. I hope that this will at least get the problem looked at, as I suspect without a neutral party, this thing will escalate into a blame game, which I do not care to be the center of.

This seems like the wrong approach to me and probably one that will lead nowhere. You can't blame either manufacturer for the fact that specific models of their products (car and tire) are incompatible due to the use of a third product (hubcap). The car works fine with its OEM tires, which is all that Hyundai is legally responsible for. They should do more in order to keep customers happy, but that's an option, not a legal requirement. Frankly, I'm surprised that they're not being more accommodating, as I had a very good experience dealing with them in the past on a far more expensive issue.

If the model tire Sears installed has a known
issue than perhaps Sears is at fault, but I can't seem to find any advisories against Goodrich tires on a 2002 Sonata. Hyundai has admintted awareness of one other case but faulted the tire, but than stated that it is OK to switch brand for replacement tires. At this point I am mostly interested in preventing other Sonata owners from getting injured or killed.

Have you checked your tire pressure? Increasing it will reduce bulging and may solve the problem. I don't know what the recommended factory pressure is for a Sonata, but their recommendation for the Elantra is way too low, particularly for the front tires. They recommend 30psi all around, which is ridiculous in a FWD car where the front tires carry most of the weight. I run mine at 36 front/32 rear and the difference in handling is dramatic. Since the problem is occurring with only the front tires (correct?), increasing the pressure may well solve it, in addition to making your car handle better.

A simple solution that will definitely work is to change to alloy wheels, but of course, that's costly. You could also purchase aftermarket hubcaps.

Personally, I would not let Hyundai off the hook. While it's unlikely that they would pay for any damaged tires, you should be able to press them to replace the hubcaps with ones that don't have this problem.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

Michael Abbaticchio wrote:

Have you been able to determine if this is a problem with all Sonata hubcaps or just the style used on your model year and trim level? Perhaps you could even get your dealer or Hyundai to cover the cost of different hubcaps.

Looks like the style used in previous models pre-2002, may have screwed into the wheel studs. Not positive on this yet, but they are defintiely visually different.

Are the hubcaps metal or plastic? If they're the former, Perhaps they could be carefully reshaped to increase clearance. If the latter, perhaps a small amount of material could be removed the the area that's contacting the tires.

The hubcaps are plastic, but the rention mechanism is made of metal. The design of the hubcap causes the hubcap edges to be psotioned beyond the rim edges, and hence make contact with the tires. They should put a smooth metal collar or pice of vinyl or rubber around the jagged plastiv edge that may potentially contact the tire valve stem.

I agree. It should be made known to other Sonata owners.

That is what this is all about at this point. I would hate to read about a recall after someone gets hurt or worse.

This seems like the wrong approach to me and probably one that will lead nowhere. You can't blame either manufacturer for the fact that specific models of their products (car and tire) are incompatible due to the use of a third product (hubcap). The car works fine with its OEM tires, which is all that Hyundai is legally responsible for. They should do more in order to keep customers happy, but that's an option, not a legal requirement. Frankly, I'm surprised that they're not being more accommodating, as I had a very good experience dealing with them in the past on a far more expensive issue.

I hope you are wrong here. If the car requires a certain brand of tires, it should state that on the sticker inside the door panel. All it specifies is 205/60/R15 which is what Sears sold me. Hyundai consumer affairs was downright defensive rather than accomodating. Maintained that it is my problem since the tire brand was changed.

Have you checked your tire pressure? Increasing it will reduce bulging and may solve the problem. I don't know what the recommended factory pressure is for a Sonata, but their recommendation for the Elantra is way too low, particularly for the front tires. They recommend 30psi all around, which is ridiculous in a FWD car where the front tires carry most of the weight. I run mine at 36 front/32 rear and the difference in handling is dramatic. Since the problem is occurring with only the front tires (correct?), increasing the pressure may well solve it, in addition to making your car handle better.

I think my tires are inflated 32PSI. The thing with tire pressure is it varies with temperature. My front wheels get really hot on that car, and I would imagine the pressure getting close to 36psi when the tires are hot. If you are at 36psi cold, you might want to rethink that strategy.

A simple solution that will definitely work is to change to alloy wheels, but of course, that's costly. You could also purchase aftermarket hubcaps.

I probably eventually will spring for alooy rims. However, just solving the problem for myself does not seem right, as there may be lots of others who are not computer savy who have run into this problem and just shrugged it off, and there is always the possibilitity of an accident caused by this.

Personally, I would not let Hyundai off the hook. While it's unlikely that they would pay for any damaged tires, you should be able to press them to replace the hubcaps with ones that don't have this problem.

A set of better designed hubcaps would make me a happy. A design change and a consumer notice, would make me even more happy. I intend to run with this as far as I can. Hyundai must understand that they are not going to shut me up by throwing free stuff my way. They have to come clean, assuming they want my future business. Maybe they don't

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Looks like the style used in previous models pre-2002, may have screwed into the wheel studs. Not positive on this yet, but they are defintiely visually different.

That sounds like an avenue that's worth investigating.

The hubcaps are plastic, but the rention mechanism is made of metal. The design of the hubcap causes the hubcap edges to be psotioned beyond the rim edges, and hence make contact with the tires.

Perhaps they could simply be reduced in diameter a bit. It should be pretty simple to do.

They should put a smooth
metal collar or pice of vinyl or rubber around the jagged plastiv edge that may potentially contact the tire valve stem.

That would be nothing but a Band-Aid and wouldn't solve the underlying problem. It makes much more sense to simply switch to different hubcaps that don't suffer from this problem.

That is what this is all about at this point. I would hate to read about a recall after someone gets hurt or worse.

I seriously doubt that there will ever be a recall, as the issue is not present on cars with OEM tires. Recalls are for factory defects and there is nothing defective here. There's a difference between a defect and an incompatibility with aftermarket parts.

I hope you are wrong here. If the car requires a certain brand of tires, it should state that on the sticker inside the door panel. All it specifies is 205/60/R15 which is what Sears sold me. Hyundai consumer affairs was downright defensive rather than accomodating. Maintained that it is my problem since the tire brand was changed.

There is no way a manufacturer can be required - or expected - to test a vehicle with every brand and model of tire in a given size. That's simply unreasonable. How do you know that the tires aren't designed outside industry standard specifications for a 205/60-R15 size? Perhaps you should be chasing the tire manufacturer instead of Hyundai? See what I'm getting at?

I think my tires are inflated 32PSI. The thing with tire pressure is it varies with temperature. My front wheels get really hot on that car, and I would imagine the pressure getting close to 36psi when the tires are hot. If you are at 36psi cold, you might want to rethink that strategy.

It's not a problem. The tires are rated at 44 PSI max and were inflated to 48 PSI (shipping pressure) when I received the car. I'm sure yours are rated in that same range.

I probably eventually will spring for alooy rims. However, just solving the problem for myself does not seem right, as there may be lots of others who are not computer savy who have run into this problem and just shrugged it off, and there is always the possibilitity of an accident caused by this.

A set of better designed hubcaps would make me a happy. A design change and a consumer notice, would make me even more happy. I intend to run with this as far as I can. Hyundai must understand that they are not going to shut me up by throwing free stuff my way. They have to come clean, assuming they want my future business. Maybe they don't

Good luck.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

That would be nothing but a Band-Aid and wouldn't solve the underlying problem. It makes much more sense to simply switch to different hubcaps that don't suffer from this problem.

Agreed. Only problem is... Who will test the new hubcaps on the highway

I seriously doubt that there will ever be a recall, as the issue is not present on cars with OEM tires. Recalls are for factory defects and there is nothing defective here. There's a difference between a defect and an incompatibility with aftermarket parts.

Point is really, if someone just reads this thread here and it helps them determine they should stick with the same brand tires, I have acomplished something. I really thing wheels and brakes are two things that should not be taken lightly by any party even remotely involved.

There is no way a manufacturer can be required - or expected - to test a vehicle with every brand and model of tire in a given size. That's simply unreasonable. How do you know that the tires aren't designed outside industry standard specifications for a 205/60-R15 size? Perhaps you should be chasing the tire manufacturer instead of Hyundai? See what I'm getting at?

Actually BF-Goodrich called me the next day after I sent an email asking about the situation. They seem very interested in getting to the bottom of thie issue. They have formally sent me a letter to bring to Sears, requesting Sears inspect the car, tires and hubcaps and report back to them the findings. I think that is a step in the right direction. They seemed a lot more concerned than Hyunda was.

It's not a problem. The tires are rated at 44 PSI max and were inflated to 48 PSI (shipping pressure) when I received the car. I'm sure yours are rated in that same range.

Yes mine are rated at 44PSI Max. So you are saying inflating them byind the max allowable pressure is OK? The door sticker on my car states 32 PSI, and that was what Sears inflated them to. You probably are getting better gas milage at higher pressures, but you really think the car handles better? My experience with overinflated tires in the past has been uneven wear, harsher ride, and hyper sensitive steering and pulling to the grade of the road.

Good luck.

Yea Thanks.... If I made any significant progress in the near future I will post here to let the world, or at least the usenet world know.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Point is really, if someone just reads this thread here and it helps them determine they should stick with the same brand tires, I have acomplished something.
Agreed.

I really thing wheels and brakes are two things that should not be taken lightly by any party even remotely involved.

I don't think that anyone is taking anything lightly, there are just limits to what can be expected. As I said before, I wouldn't give up on Hyundai and would push them for new hubcaps that don't have the problem.

Actually BF-Goodrich called me the next day after I sent an email asking about the situation. They seem very interested in getting to the bottom of thie issue. They have formally sent me a letter to bring to Sears, requesting Sears inspect the car, tires and hubcaps and report back to them the findings. I think that is a step in the right direction. They seemed a lot more concerned than Hyunda was.

I'm not surprised, given all the lawsuits we've seen recently regarding tires.

Yes mine are rated at 44PSI Max. So you are saying inflating them byind the max allowable pressure is OK?

No, there's no need to go that high, and I don't recommend it. It is safe. but it will probably result in the center of the tread wearing out prematurely.

The door sticker on my car states 32 PSI, and
that was what Sears inflated them to. You probably are getting better gas milage at higher pressures, but you really think the car handles better?

Absolutely! One of the reasons that manufacturers specify equal front/rear pressures is to make sure that the car understeers strongly under all driving conditions and provides a pillowy ride, which they consider to be safer and more desirable for "Joe Average Driver". They're not concerned with the fact that equal pressures result in uneven wear on the front tires (the edges wear out faster). If you read tire manufacturer's web sites, they explain that tire pressures should ideally be set based on the weight the tires support and the amount of sidewall deflection. In a FWD car where the front tires bear ~60% of the car's weight, they should be inflated to higher pressures than the rears.

My experience with overinflated tires in the past has been uneven wear, harsher ride, and hyper sensitive steering and pulling to the grade of the road.

I'm not talking about "overinflating" anything. Hyundai provides a "recommended" tire pressure, based on criteria of their choosing. That doesn't mean that is the optimum pressure for best handling or even tread wear.

Tire pressure is a simple thing to test, so why not see for yourself? Try bumping your front tires up to 36 PSI and see what effect it has on handling and the hubcap problem. It won't do any harm and you may find it quite illuminating. If you don't like the results, you can always drop the pressure back.

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

Thanks for the info. This is all news to me.. I will try bumping up the front a little and see how the car handles, but the those hubcaps are off for good. The problem wasn't specific to any tire. The rear tires have the same problem, but to a lesser degree. The front tires are the ones that kept going flat, but the stem on one of the rears did get a nick from the hubcap pressure. Even if the tire pressure solved the problem, I wouldn't want to risk losing a little pressure and the hubcap creating a rapid deflation as a result.

Maybe I will spring for some alloys, if I decide to keep the car for the long haul.

 

[Jon W.]

Overinflating steel belted tires is a proven disaster waiting to happen. The pressure could cause the tire to explode, with the steel belts actually ripping the tires to shreds. The bad part of this is that it usually happens at highway speeds after the tires have heated up. Please never overinflate the tires beyond what is stamped on the tires as the max PSI.

J.W.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Thanks for the info. This is all news to me.. I will try bumping up the front a little and see how the car handles, but the those hubcaps are off for good. The problem wasn't specific to any tire. The rear tires have the same problem, but to a lesser degree. The front tires are the ones that kept going flat, but the stem on one of the rears did get a nick from the hubcap pressure. Even if the tire pressure solved the problem, I wouldn't want to risk losing a little pressure and the hubcap creating a rapid deflation as a result.

That sounds like a sensible approach.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Overinflating steel belted tires is a proven disaster waiting to happen. The pressure could cause the tire to explode, with the steel belts actually ripping the tires to shreds. The bad part of this is that it usually happens at highway speeds after the tires have heated up. Please never overinflate the tires beyond what is stamped on the tires as the max PSI.

First off, I NEVER advocated overinflating tires. My recommendations are well below the maximum pressure that the tires are rated for.

Secondly, tires are tested to pressures well in excess of their posted pressure rating, so the scenario you portrayed is highly unlikely. It would take severe overinflation to cause it. Tires are routinely overinflated to prevent wheel damage when the car is strapped down for shipping and it's quite likely that many are driven that way initially (my EGT had 48 psi in the tires when I picked it up). If overinflation was a serious problem, there would be a lot of failures.

Third, there are FAR more tire failures from underinflation than from overinflation. Low pressure causes more tire deflection, which causes more internal friction until the tire fails due to excessive heat buildup. I've witnessed this on tractor trailers where one tire has gone flat and begins to smoke, then ultimately disintegrates. Underinflation was the cause of the huge Ford/Firestone problem years ago.

Forth, your tires will never gain pressure, other than a small increase when they warm up (typically 2-4 psi). However, pressure loss is quite common and is a much more serious problem. A substantial percentage of accidents are the result of people never checking their tire pressure and not catching underinflated tires, which ultimately cause control problems and/or blowouts.

Check your tire pressure, people!

 

[Michael Abbaticchio]

When I said oveinflated, I meant beyond what is stamped on the door jamb label. Not what is stamped on the tire. That would be plain stupid.