Advice needed NOW, they made me an offer until tommorrow.

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Robin, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Ok went for my first test drive today for Sonata VS and XG350L. Sonata
    was ok, didn't knock me out for some reason, so was slightly
    disappointed). Then I drive 20 ft in the XG350L and I KNEW!!!!!!!!! I
    didn't want the test drive to end, just loved, loved, loved it!!

    Next, I had explained to the salesman that I'm a month away from making
    a purchase, my current lease doesn't expire til then, that I would like
    him to be the one who sells it to me, but if he does, he's not going to
    make much, that I will put him thru the paces, that I always have 10-15
    dealers, with a phone call or fax outbidding each other from all over
    the place etc. and that's how I've always gotten what I've considered to
    be very good deals.

    His response to that was that this dealership will probably go along
    with a few hundred over invoice because they're a volume dealer (also
    have Misubishi, and a couple of other makes - don't understand how that
    helps them as volume dealer for Hyundai so this might be a little BSing
    on his part), and it helps them just to turn the car over.

    When we got back from XG test drive, the sales manager called us over,
    asked how I liked it. I told him I've selected the car I want, will
    start process in one month,e xplained about lease. He said, what if I
    take care of that last payment for you. I said one way or the other,
    I'll still be paying for it. He said, no, that he has an advertising
    account that he can charge it to which he occassionally does for people
    who have only payment left, he wouldn't do it for more than one payment.
    More, he said he'd sell the car to me for $25 over invoice, but have to
    buy this weekend.

    I asked my salesman later that I would want to see the invoice, he said
    I would see it, that it's a certified copy of invoice, whatever that
    means. Is it possible for them to alter it or not be a true
    representation of their cost in any way?? I know I can check on Edmunds,
    don't have time this moment, will do later.


    My salesman said he's never heard him make this offer to anyone (BS,
    right?, but he sounded so sincere that that, probably they're working
    together because of my enthusiasm over the car, which I was very open
    about on the test drive, saying this is it, this is my car.

    Salesman and Mgr both told me I would be paying at least $300-400 over
    invoice at any fleet/online source, that they HAVE to sell it for at
    least that. Manager said he knew I'd be using all dealers bidding
    against ea other, wanted to save time/hassle for him and me.

    What complicates things is that it's not really going to be better for
    me than $400 over invoice since I just paid my second to last payment of
    $400, so that would be wasted, and there goes that savings.

    Next, my maintenance light is on (on my Honda Accord) it needs the next
    tune up or whatever happens at the mileage its at and I haven't done it
    yet. Thought I had a little time. If I turned the car in tommorrow, how
    would this work between Hyuundai dealer and Honda who they'd be turning
    it back into?


    Next, - issue of rebate or 0% financing. My credit is excellent, I
    would be putting down pymt perhaps $5000-$8000. The sales man said that
    on a four yr loan, the interest wouldn't be as much as $2000 so better
    to get the rebate. Since I don't believe a word that comes out of the
    mouths of a car salesman, don't know what to believe. The sales mgr
    said he can show me on paper which would be better, but I would look to
    your advice over his paper.

    Perhaps I should just wait one more month, and hope he'll make me
    similar deal next month for whatever the reasons he has for needing to
    make such an offer. My salesman couldn't believe the offer, saying that
    the mgr made him loose a deal yesterday when his customer offered $400
    over invoice, he showed me the worksheet he had been using. He said he
    thinks mgr may have some pressure to sell cars because of advertising
    expense on the weekends, wants to show cars are moving.

    So guys - what do you think?
    P.S. (I'm also 187 miles away from the 45,000 mileage limit on my Honda,
    no big deal really, I guess, and not a deal breaker. It just would give
    me tremendous satisfaction to turn the car in before speedometer turns
    to 45,000.
     
    Robin, Feb 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. Robin

    Jason Guest

    Rough interest calculations (within 2%, depending on how your bank
    calculates interest):

    i = interest rate
    a = loan amount
    t = loan term

    interest paid = ((a * i^t) - a) / 2

    Here's an example based on the loan I took for my 2003 Sonata LX:
    i = 1.0374 (3.74%)
    a = $12,000
    t = 5 years
    interest paid = ((12000 * 1.0374^5) - 12000) / 2 = $1209.12

    I'd say that if the guy is willing to pay your last lease payment and
    still give you the car within $100 of the invoice price, go for it.
     
    Jason, Feb 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. So how much was the sales price of the XG350L, after rebate? Any extras
    like floor mats, mud guards, or CD changer? What was the loan interest rate
    offered?

    Did you check www.kbb.com and www.edmunds.com?
     
    Cathy De Viney, Feb 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Robin

    wamaruna Guest

    Well, Robin, you've not given us all the info we'd need to do your math for
    you. We don't even know your country, or the interest if any you could earn
    on the $2,000 if it reduced your payments or down-payment, etc.

    The other great unknown in deciding between buying now or a month or two
    from now is, what will happen to the current $2K rebate after month-end?
    Granted, it was on for at least the last two months (when I started tracking
    it), but here in the U.S. spring will be upon us, the time when a young
    man's fancy turns to cars, and the dealers know it.

    I bought my XG350L last weekend. I live in eastern NC in the US, where
    there are not a lot of Hyundai dealers to compete against each other, and
    none of the folks in my half of the state participate in Edmund's buying
    service or Cars Direct. Still I was able to use Edmund's TMV and the
    CarsDirect target price to negotiate a price of $22,300 after rebate. This
    is on the L-series without CD changer, but with carpet mats and rear
    mudguards. But there was also a $200 'documentation fee' which I knew about
    going in, so depending on how you view that, you can add that to the $22,300
    if you like. Everyone around here seems to play the doc-fee game, ranging
    from $99 to $250. So make sure you know all the fees before agreeing on
    what you think will be the price. I'm sure these doc-fees are pure dealer
    profit games. But since all the dealers were getting at least $100, I
    figured the other $100 was on top of the $22.3K, which put me at $22,400,
    which was about the CarsDirect $22,435 price for the equivalent car.

    As far as 0% financing or $2K rebate, what interest rate are they quoting?
    If your credit is as good as you say, on-line Capitol One was quoting 3.9%
    car rates last time I checked. Let's assume you carry a $17,000 principal
    amount. On a 48 month loan at 5%, you'll pay $1,792 interest over the four
    years. Pretty scary, eh? At a 4% rate, you're shelling out $1,492 over the
    term. And at 6%, it's $2,164. You need to decide that one. But consider
    that by putting the $2K down as a rebate applied to the purchase price,
    you've reduced your interest over the 4 years at 5% by $211 right off the
    bat. If it was me, I'd take the rebate and find my own best rate.

    Find out what their best price is, and compare it to mine and what others
    may be willing to post. Your area may be different from mine, where there
    is not much other Hyundai competition, and with the smaller town, the dealer
    probably has to make a bit more per sale to survive. Then decide whether
    the dealer is taking the last payment on your Accord out of your pocket or
    his. I was coming off a lease, and they suggested the same thing to me.
    But I had already made my last payment, and was counting down the last 10
    days of the lease.

    I'd be curious to know your age. I read where the target age for XG buyers
    is 55, kind of like Buick and Lincoln and Caddy buyers. I fit that profile.
    My wife and I also drove the Sonata. We drove both the Sonata and the XG
    four times, and had a hard time deciding, considering the $4K spread in the
    price, though there is an equipment difference besides. This will be my
    wife's car, and we really loved the looks of the Sonata, inside and out, but
    we were coming off a Toyota Avalon, and the XG is a much closer ride and
    'feel' to the Avalon than the Sonata, plus my wife and I are about 8 inches
    different in height, so the memory seats in the XG350L were a big plus, as
    we enjoyed them in the Avalon as well. My wife is petitie, so the Sonata
    would have fit her fine, but for me it was just a mite too tight. The
    Avalon XLS was a terrific car, and we leased two in a row, and never had a
    problem to speak of. The ride was wonderful and the seats very comfy, but I
    could not ignore the $8K difference in price to the XG I don't expect the
    XG to measure up in all regards to the Avalon, but if it comes close, we'll
    be happy. I also think the trunk restyle from '03 to '04 was a big plus,
    but others' tastes may vary.
     
    wamaruna, Feb 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Robin

    Robin Guest

    I'm in southern California. Re interest, I haven't checked in a couple
    of weeks but the best interest rate then was about 3.9% at Capitol One.
    Hyundai's lowest interest rate, if you don't choose their 0%, is
    5.-something, so that's not an option. Much better rates out there.

    Very good point. Also, I have a potential rear brake problem that could
    surface within the next 30 days ($200-$250 to fix).
    When I went in to the dealership today, it was only to test drive the
    Sonata and XG to give me the month to decide which one I wanted. I did
    not go in armed and ready with TMV info. The offer from the sales mgr
    took me by surprise, I was just on my way out. I'm convinced the
    salesman hightailed it into the sales manager when we got back from the
    test drive to tell him my comments about how much I loved the car. I'm
    sure what happened today is the oldest trick in the book, to confuse the
    customer with something they didn't see coming.
    Answered above. When I responded to their 5.something %, they said they
    had other options, but we didn't go into it since I wanted to hurry home
    to post to this newsgroup.


    That does seem to be the answer. I would arrange for my own financing
    on Monday. Before I leave the lot with the car, I believe they want me
    financed thru their people, and then once I get my own - to switch. Is
    there a reason I shouldn't do that? If my credit checks out at
    dealership, isn't there another option other than taking their
    financing, even if only for a few days?

    I'm in southern Orange County which is half way between L.A. and San
    Diego, and I would be willing to go in either direction or any point in
    between for the right deal if its significantly better than a closer
    dealership or Cars Direct.
    Then decide whether
    How do I determine that? If I see the invoice and he's charging me $25
    above it, doesn't that answer that question? Or are there other ways he
    has of taking it from my pocket (document fees perhaps, as you suggested
    earlier, kits or trims that show up on the car? An invoice that's been
    inflated or not a true representation of what they paid for it?).


    I was coming off a lease, and they suggested the same thing to me.
    See that's a tough one, because I don't think it would be difficult to
    get $300-$400 over invoice given the number of Hyundai dealers in my
    area. This Tuesday, the second to my last lease payment, $322, is
    being deducted from my checking account which would be lost, and needs
    to be deducted from what I would be saving to accept his deal. He said
    he'd pay ONE carpymt, that was really an issue for him, but he never
    asked if my car payment was $100 or $600. Maybe that could be a point
    of negotiation, meet him half way on the payment I'm making this week or
    some other goody he could throw in to make me feel better about this. I
    don't NEED to get the car now, the maturity date on my lease is 4/28.
    So, the advantage to accepting the deal now, if you agree with me, is to
    protect myself about this potential rear brake problem that could
    surface before I turn the car in, and potential for rebate to decrease.
    Do you agree? Am I forgetting/not thinking about something?
    I'm 52 so I guess I do too, but would not be attracted to
    Buick/Lincoln/Caddy. Those are old people cars. I would be drawn
    toward Infinity/Lexus or Accord EXLV6 or Nissan Altima V6.


    plus my wife and I are about 8 inches
    I was concerned the XG's size would overwhelm me since I'm only 5', but
    it doens't feel any larger than my Honda Accord, while the Sonata felt
    smaller than the Accord although everyone I ask says Sonata and Accord
    same size, XG larger.

    A question about "invoice" price - are the rebates and other incentives
    that a dealer gets reflected on the invoice for the car, or is that
    hidden, with the invoice not being a true reflection of what the dealer
    paid for it? If that's the case, is it possible to negotiate car below
    invoice?

    Another way I'm anticipating I can be bamboozled are "kits" or "trims"
    that happen to be on the car, which I'll need to pay for because that's
    the way the dealer was sent the car. Any way to protect myself from
    that?
    Robin
     
    Robin, Feb 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Robin

    Robin Guest

    I didn't even look. My goal today was to decide Sonata or XG. Never
    anticipated a serious negotiation to occur.


    Any extras
    They have several XG's to choose from. My understanding is that the
    XG350L has 8 CD changer. I saw the matts in the trunk of the car I test
    drove.

    What was the loan interest rate
    0% or $2000 rebate. If I take the rebate, they mentioned a 5.-something
    % interest rate, but said they might be able to do better. I can get my
    own financing if that's what it comes to, ie. Capitol One, 3.9.

    For interest rates or TMV? Not in the last couple of weeks but yes, I
    have.
    Robin
     
    Robin, Feb 22, 2004
    #6
  7. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Even though I'm just now making my second to the last car payment of
    $322?
     
    Robin, Feb 22, 2004
    #7
  8. Robin

    wamaruna Guest

    Robin, it sounds like you and I have similar tastes. I too would not have
    considered Buick/Caddy/Lincoln. On the other hand, we test drove the Accord
    EX twice (very quick car, XM radio, but way too much road noise intrusion
    for my taste) and the Altima (again, too much noise, this time road and
    engine - also, I'd need to check again if the V6 required premium fuel.)

    Were it not for the fact that you have this potential brake problem and are
    about to go over on your mileage, I would say you should wait. I too went
    looking a couple months early, and made it very clear that I was not going
    to buy for two months. I was not the one who was under any pressure to buy
    a car. It's the dealer who is under pressure to sell you a car. Why let
    them transfer their pressure to you? And as for the salesman's comment that
    he was surprised that his manager was letting you have this kind of offer,
    all I can say is...did you see "Fargo"? Wm. H. Macy's character pretty much
    said those same words. I'd classify that under Car Saleman Talk 101.

    On the other hand, when does the rebate end? No one knows. It could go on
    for months, or it could change next month. Are you willing to take that
    risk, and walk away to another car if it happens? I was, two months ago. I
    was not locked onto the XG, so that uncertainty was not an issue. If they
    took it away, it just made for one more elimination on my list of cars.

    And what will going over on your mileage cost you? That sounds like almost
    a certainty, and needs to be weighed against the payment you'd be losing.
    Maybe you're not going to be out $322, but only half that after considering
    your mile overage. And how sure are you about the brake job?

    You definitely have some considerations that don't make this a clean-cut
    decision. In the end, remember to ignore all pressure tactics. Buy on your
    timetable, but take into consideration all the factors. Good luck.
     
    wamaruna, Feb 22, 2004
    #8
  9. Robin

    K. Collier Guest

    Get the "drive out" price in writing. This will include all fees, taxes,
    etc. Don't decide until they give you that.
    And take the rebate if you do decide to buy given that it is 2K.
    Good luck!
     
    K. Collier, Feb 23, 2004
    #9
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