Do you believe Hyundai Service Depts. are too quick to sell youreplacement parts (that are unnecessa

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by IlBeBauck, May 22, 2009.

  1. IlBeBauck

    IlBeBauck Guest

    I was on my way to Florida and had to swing into a Hyundai Dealer in
    Birmington, Al. because my 2002 SantaFe died all of a sudden on the
    Interstate ; fortunately, it re-started after a few minutes but ran
    rough. The Service Dept. read the Engine Code and it indicated the
    Mass Airflow Sensor was defective ; the Service Advisor said it was
    shorted and the installation would run a few hundred dollars and that
    they had it in stock. I was skeptical , so i declined the repair and
    paid their $89 diagnosis fee . When i got some distance from the
    Dealership, i pulled the intake hose from the MAF Sensor
    housing ...and low and behold ... i immediately found the problem : A
    small piece of debris had lodged itself on the inlet screen . I
    removed that and the engine ran normal again and has not been a
    problem since. Obviously, the Service Dept. was more interested in
    making profit on parts changing than anything else.

    Im sure its a scenario thats repeated many thousands of times each day
    in America .
     
    IlBeBauck, May 22, 2009
    #1
  2. IlBeBauck

    Mike Edwards Guest

    I don't really believe that Service Depts are deliberately dishonest. The
    computer tells them the most likely cause of the problem. For the sake of
    saving time and getting to as many cars a day as possible they'll do what
    the computer suggests. However, in your case, what you don't know is if you
    had OK'd the repair and in the process of changing the sensor they
    discovered the same blockage would they have changed their diagnosis and
    only charged you the labor for removing the debris or gone ahead and
    replaced the part.
     
    Mike Edwards, May 23, 2009
    #2
  3. IlBeBauck

    Voyager Guest

    You have no way to know that. They may simply took what the scan tool
    said as the initial indication and may well have found the debris had
    you authorized the repair and they then pulled the hose. I'm not too
    surprised that they wouldn't pull all hoses and electrical connectors
    and check everything else if you had just dropped in with no appointment
    and they were simply trying to get you back on your way quickly.
     
    Voyager, May 23, 2009
    #3
  4. IlBeBauck

    Ed Pawlowski Guest

    Yes and no. They read a computer that said the sensor was no operating
    properly. They may or may not have found the debris and may or may not have
    changed the sensor.

    I've run into similar situations at assorted dealers and independent shops
    over the years. Some are honest and would do the exact required service,
    others will replace parts until things work again. Some have poor diagnostic
    ability, some are incredibly sharp.

    A little story. My brother, an engineer, could have been one of the top
    auto machanics in the world if he chose it as a profession instead of a
    hobby. One day a co-worker asked my brother to bring him back to work after
    dropping off his car for repair. He said the generator (remember them?) and
    voltage regulator had to be replaced. My brother said "no, one or the
    other, rarely both are bad, let me check it first." They went out to the
    parking lot, popped the hood and my brother tightened the fan belt. Case
    closed.

    Was the shop dishonest? Dumb? Hard to say, maybe both.

    I have other stories and I'm sure others here do also. IMO, service
    departments do try to sell you unneeded services, transmission flushes,
    polish the wheel studs or nitrogen blast the muffler brackets, but most do
    what they say they do. Some independents will scam you, others are great
    money savers on good, reliable, honest, service.
     
    Ed Pawlowski, May 23, 2009
    #4
  5. IlBeBauck

    IlBeBauck Guest

    I think for $89 , they should have pulled the hose off of the MAF
    sensor housing as well as reading a simple code. I just think that
    they didnt have much integrity ; as for honesty...I cant say for sure.
     
    IlBeBauck, May 23, 2009
    #5
  6. IlBeBauck

    hyundaitech Guest

    Should have, yes. Deliberately selling you something you didn't
    need? Probably not. 2.4 and 3.5L air flow sensors are among high
    frequency failures. Not as much on 2.7.

    Here's the root problem to all this-- mechanics' pay methods. In an
    effort to keep mechanics working quickly, nearly all mechanics are
    paid on some sort of commision basis. In most dealers, it's based on
    billable labor hours. This causes the mechanic to attempt to diagnose
    and repair the problem as quickly as possible, often taking shortcuts
    in the process. In your case, the shortcut occurred by not physically
    inspecting the air flow sensor.
     
    hyundaitech, May 23, 2009
    #6
  7. IlBeBauck

    Voyager Guest

    Methinks you doth protest too much with too little information.

    Speaking of integrity: how much do you think someone has who posts an
    impugning message in public based on almost no data? Maybe you should
    pull Webster's off the shelf and look up "integrity."

    Matt
     
    Voyager, May 23, 2009
    #7
  8. IlBeBauck

    Ken Guest

    If you knew anything about Dave Brown's history on the interent (with
    him using over 2 dozen different nics so far) you'd know he has
    ABSOLUTELY no integrity, little common sense, mental stablilty,
    rational thought, honesty, or much of anything else to offer up,
    other than having a big mouth (and NEVER being wrong)
     
    Ken, May 23, 2009
    #8
  9. IlBeBauck

    nothermark Guest

    I assume the same thing you do. OTOH, all the tech did is read the
    code and report it. Nobody looked at the sensor like you did. it
    would be nice to assume that they would notice the debris when they
    took it apart. Your real problem with the diagnosis is the high
    reliance on instrumentation and a service writer that doesn't know a
    short from an open circuit but tosses terms around.
     
    nothermark, May 23, 2009
    #9
  10. Sounds like they gave a quick analysis and a worst-case estimate on it.

    If you'd quietly put everything back, taken it in again and got them to
    perform the test, and they'd charged for a new sensor I think you'd have
    a stronger case for them being dishonest. But that would have been silly.

    Personally, I'm always happy when I pay less than the initial estimate
    on a repair.


    Steve
     
    Steven Fisher, May 24, 2009
    #10
  11. I meant to say "perform the repair."


    Steve
     
    Steven Fisher, May 24, 2009
    #11
  12. IlBeBauck

    Gothumbs Guest

    I don't know if you should question the integrity of the dealership,
    unless you had some sort of proof that they were trying to cheat you. I
    would question the 'integrity' of your intake system ducting. The MAF
    should be downstream of the air filter. No dirt or debris should be
    able to get to the MAF under normal conditions.
     
    Gothumbs, May 27, 2009
    #12
  13. IlBeBauck

    Steve in AZ Guest

    Sorry all; a little late getting my input on this...(Hank- ssshhhsss!)

    Anyway, I agree that most dealerships are quick to sell services. In an
    earlier post, someone in the group inquired about the 30k mile service and
    HT promptly corrected the "discrepancy".
    My dealer wants to do the following at 30k miles:

    1. Tranny Flush
    2. Coolant Flush
    3. Serpentine Belt
    4. Cabin Air Filter
    5. Air filter and LOF

    Now, understand that I am in good with my service department and they know
    that I was a mechanic before career change to IT Management. When confronted
    about what the manual for my 08 Sonata SE states, they didn't balk, rather
    told me that would be for "normal" environments. I'm in AZ and already went
    down the KN filter route...

    Nonetheless, I told them thanks, but no thanks. No where in my manual does
    it differentiate between severe and normal environments with the exception
    of oil changes, which get done at 3k religiously (and they use Castrol!)

    So in short, consumers MUST be educated and realize that as the quality of
    vehicles increase, more and more of the shop's profit will need to come from
    services rather than warranty work.

    By the way- my 08 has inferior front window rails and the windows squeak, so
    it's going back tomorrow for new ones- upgraded from HMC...

    Steve in AZ
     
    Steve in AZ, Jun 5, 2009
    #13
  14. IlBeBauck

    Slim Guest

    THE STEALER is exposed again!


    --
    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in
    England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after
    all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it
    is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a
    democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
    the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL
    THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of
    patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY
    COUNTRY."
     
    --Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
     
    Slim, Jun 15, 2009
    #14
  15. IlBeBauck

    Slim Guest

    Bullshit.

    They were trying to separate him from his money as quickly as possible.

    --
    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in
    England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after
    all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it
    is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a
    democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
    the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL
    THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of
    patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY
    COUNTRY."
     
    --Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
     
    Slim, Jun 15, 2009
    #15
  16. IlBeBauck

    Slim Guest

    STEALERS have a looooooong way to go to before you can use the "I" word
    to describe them.

    --
    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in
    England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after
    all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it
    is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a
    democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
    the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL
    THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of
    patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY
    COUNTRY."
     
    --Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
     
    Slim, Jun 15, 2009
    #16
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