Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob
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Bob

Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
know if this was my engine."

Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
cracked.

It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
can see.

I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
quits leaking.

I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.
 
Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
hoping that it wasn't cracked.
Click to expand...

That sucks.

I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
warms, it quits leaking.

I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.
Click to expand...

Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.
 
I second Mike's motion. You should contact Fram and DOCUMENT the filter
gasket's failure in case you have engine problems. A follow up with a
registered letter would be my second step. Fram is a very reputable
company, despite how they get slammed on this forum, and should welcome the
information about the gasket material. It sounds as if they may have
changed gasket material. Probably, as is so frequent today, they outsourced
the gaskets (maybe the entire filter) to China and got what they paid
for-junk. It happened to me at my work when our closure supplier changed
their gasket source to China and, without their knowledge, the material was
also changed to something cheaper.
China will destroy our economy...................

Tom
 
Bob said:
Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
filters for the Sonata.
Click to expand...

There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to use
ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of troubles.
 
I read the TSB about engine noise (valve lifters) a while back. Is there
another one? I'll have to check.
 
Bob said:
Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
know if this was my engine."

Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
cracked.

It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
can see.

I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
quits leaking.

I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.
Click to expand...

It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However, if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their
supplier sent them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose,
but unbeknown to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have
no opportunity to address them.

I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
to ignore it, then that is out of my control.

I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter? That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough
in most cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For
me, I'll pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai
or Purolator or similar filters.

I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.


Matt
 
Zotto said:
There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
troubles.
Click to expand...
The TSB from Hyundai was generic - Issued 2005 for All Vehicles. It talked
about possible engine noise as a side effect of using aftermarket filters.
Others here discussed it further, and said it was maybe due to
anti-drainback valve issues. The filters for the 3.3 are bare cartridge
filters, not the type in a metal can. They contain no valves.

As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
"Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for the
application. There was absolutely no deviation from their instructions -
it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in all that long. I
can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they can duplicate the
problem. I'm not really concerned about this having damaged the engine, as
all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't have a chance to get low.
The leak was discovered within a day of it starting.
 
As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
"Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for
the application. There was absolutely no deviation from their
instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in
all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they
can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about this having
damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't
have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a day of it
starting.
Click to expand...

A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...
 
Mike Marlow said:
A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...

--
Click to expand...

Fortunately, there's no damage other than the mess which a 2 dollar can of
degreaser took care of. A neighbor came over and reminded me of the $500
fine for washing cars because of the water restrictions.....

They'll either call me back, and be interested, or they won't. Even if they
want the filter, etc. back, I'm sure they'll never 'fess up to there being a
problem. The filter is still in the car, as I'll probably change the oil
sometime this weekend. I just swapped out the O-ring yesterday. I'll do the
rest when I change the oil. I sent the pics to someone on this group that
emailed for them. If anyone's got a solution for posting them, I'll do that.
 
Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and
every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda warm
here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of oil
come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds like
new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change

']['unez

" When your up to your ass in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
 
I've used Fram from day one and never had a problem with them. I only use
fram on my 01 Sonota because no one else carries filters for Hyundai
Sonatas other than wall mart. Canadian tire used to have them, but do not
carry them any more. I am not going to pay an inflated price for a filter
from the dealership.
']['unez said:
Well just to add my 2 cents for what its worth I have a 2005 XG350L and
every oil change has been done at 3000 miles ( Please dont bash me for the
3000 mile change, I live in the desert ( Las Vegas ) and it gets kinda warm
here and we have sand storms quite often ) But every oil change has been
with Mobil1 and a FRAM oil filter as of now I have yet to have a drop of oil
come from the filter or not 1 engine noise, the car car runs and sounds like
new. I guess heres where I get bashed !!!!!! I have had every oil change
done at the local Walmart !!!! and have never had a problem with them,
besides they wash my windsheild with every oil change

']['unez

" When your up to your ass in alligators, its hard to remember, your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "


Matt Whiting said:
It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say. However,
if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their supplier sent
them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose, but unbeknown
to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have no opportunity
to address them.

I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
to ignore it, then that is out of my control.

I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really are
often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to matter?
That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough in most
cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For me, I'll
pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai or Purolator
or similar filters.

I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.


Matt
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
If you'd been paying attention to this or any other forum, you'd know
that Fram filters are absolute crap and potentially damaging to your
engine. Now you know.
 
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter who
it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say about
opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles and sold
them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one complaint or
not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of your opinions
aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil 1 came out and I
switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has parts fail, it doesnt
matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does happen Just because you may
have had a bad experiance with a fram filter or read it someplace that
doesnt mean you need to condem them for every body else .

OH BTW I probably follow this forum more in two days than you do in two
weeks, I just read alot and dont post much.

']['unez

" When your up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember your main
objective was to drain the swamp ! "
 
']['unez said:
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say
about opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles
and sold them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one
complaint or not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of
your opinions aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil
1 came out and I switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has
parts fail, it doesnt matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does
happen Just because you may have had a bad experiance with a fram filter
or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every
body else .
Click to expand...

Fram filters changed a lot over that time period. I used them in the
early days as well and they were very good then. When Fram was acquired
by a different company (forget the details now as it has been many years
ago), the filters were redesigned to cut cost. They went from being a
premium brand to being a bottom-tier brand almost overnight.

Use what you will, but the standard Fram filters today just aren't high
quality as several tear-downs have shown.

Matt
 
']['unez said:
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
who it was aimed at ) .....
Click to expand...

Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about
the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to
thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL
INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why
I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine.
It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that
whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold?
Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is
pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.

Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some
kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they
will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess.
 
GUEST wrote
Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oi filters
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took severa pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuin Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The picture are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and th inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from th Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that thes materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I' want to
know if this was my engine.

Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All wa well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drive the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had bee leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing wa almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping tha it wasn't
cracked

It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually ha hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O rin was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O rin actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures o the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. M server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, o suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address i valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions s everyone
can see

I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the pas few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on th driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oi warms, it
quits leaking

I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - can
picture how their customer service would react - denial
Click to expand...

Th
best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about ever
brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmar
brand seems to work fine

However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then on
will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be an
particular brand

Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oi
level and you will be OK

Luk
 
I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
one!!!
 
Well, that in itself says one helluva lot about Fram!!! If they take the
time and effort to send you a special box to return the failed filter in
then they DO care about their products. That's a lot more than I can say
about many other manufacturers that I have dealt with over the years.

Bob said:
']['unez said:
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
who it was aimed at ) .....
Click to expand...

Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends
about the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge
to thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON
VISUAL INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good.
That's why I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter
still looks fine. It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It
would appear that whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat,
oil, cold? Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass
valve assembly is pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.

Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out
some kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim
that they will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was
make a mess.
Click to expand...
 
Deck said:
I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
one!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, but if the Fram o-ring is really inferior why do you suspect any
different about the filter itself?

Matt
 
Bob said:
']['unez said:
Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
who it was aimed at ) .....
Click to expand...

Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about
the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to
thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL
INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why
I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine.
It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that
whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold?
Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is
pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.

Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some
kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they
will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess.
Click to expand...

That is a great response from Fram. Let us know what you hear back once
they get your returned parts.

Matt
 

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