Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!

Do you go to the cheapest hospital and doctor when you are sick?

Matt

 

Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
charges. Sad but true.

 

There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go
cheap. The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it
didn't matter.

Matt

 

The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately.
Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist
yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels.
$300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap'
cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing.

 

I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design
management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly
under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore
products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion
corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests."
Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean
it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying
products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it.

 

My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea"

 

It certainly isn't the only metric, but it does hold for many, many
products. Every oil test I've seen shows correlation between quality
and price.

Matt

 

I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management
experience [but in a $6B company - ], and I've never had any such
mandate. However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key
is what the specifications are against which the product is being
tested. I designed products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging,
but I can see a distinct difference between packaging and products for
longer-term use. If the packaging is good enough to protect the
contents while it is in transit, that is all that is needed. Making it
two times better adds no value. Products that will see a long service
live under widely varying conditions are a little bit different.

Matt

 

I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India.

 

Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous
chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very
strange that you never were under cost constraints. You must have been
making the overpriced machinery that we bought. ) Our company was still
'small' enough to not be insulated from upper management. We routinely
conversed and interacted with them. They actually knew what was going on at
the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run
by MBA's and accountants.

 

There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap...................

 

That's interesting in that mine did not specify. I posted a bunch of
pictures of it in the ~ June timeframe just after they appeared in the
stores. The failed filter was installed around the end of August. I looked
at the O-ring again, and it is still compressed looking.

 

Didn't you just say that the country of origin was no indication of
quality? Or by "cheap", do you simply mean "least expensive".

 

Exactly. Moreover, when I checked the specs of the Fram filter for the
Elantra, the relief valve (bypass valve) pressure was well below
Hyundai's specifications. OTOH, Purolator filters ARE made to Hyundai's
factory specs. I imagine other reputable filters are also made to the
correct specs, but obviously, Fram doesn't care enough to do so, which
is more than good enough reason for me to avoid them like the plague.

Additionally, any company that sells "snake oil" such as filters that
contain Teflon (long ago disproved as a useful oil additive) and
nonsense like special filters for use with synthetic oils is highly
suspect. This silliness is all about marketing and increasing profits by
deceiving the public, not about protecting engines.

 

I'd DIE before I put that cheap Korean crap on my Hyundai.

PB

 

denial

Wow! We have covered several areas. I have a BSEE
MBA and Masters in Systems Engineering degrees. Have over 30 year
experience in product design and now work for a major airplan
manufacturing company (many billions) as an Avionics Engineer.

To evaluate an oil filter, one would need to know the specification
of the product including the tolorances of the parts, the materia
trace, the characteristics of the paper used in the filter, th
quality control system, etc. We do not have access to that kind o
info so just have to go by hearsay and experience

I have found a couple of websites that have evaluated oil filters bu
just take those inputs with a grain of salt. Also, I wonder abou
the value of the filter with the high detergent oils we have today

Medical question: I have an HMO and have had a couple of majo
surguries over the years. One should be educated and well informe
before listening to any doctor. I investigate the ones I use ver
thoroughly before using them. Money is not the determining facto
but past results are indicative of their quality.

When judging the quality of almost anything we purchase or use toda
we are limited by time to do research and lack of availabl
information

According to my training, a product should meet the liste
requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sur
this is the attitude of Hyundai

 

That filter may well be a genuine Hyundai filter repackaged by Fram.

You've joking, right? Your car is "Made in Korea". Even if it's assembled
in the US, most of the parts are made in Korea.

 

I was using the comments of 'others' to show them that, if they were correct
in their proposition that country of origin makes them cheaper, then you
can't get any 'cheaper' than India. That was a revered Purolator filter
that was made in India, not a Fram. ALL companies under pricing pressure
are reverting to the lowest cost producer and making things 'just good
enough' to do the job. Fact of life.

 

Very well put, southluke.

 

I never said I wasn't under cost constraints. I said that I'd never had
a mandate from the CEO to to "make the product JUST good enough to pass
the tests."

I'm not insulated from upper management. I had the CEO, the President
and COO and the CTO in my lab just a few months ago and they are
visiting my project again next week...

Matt