Hyundai's borrowed technology (from other makers)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave in Lake Villa
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Dave in Lake Villa

Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
; If i remember correctly, the suspension was Mercedes Benz, the
electronics from Bosch, and there were a couple others too (which
perhaps someone in this NG can bring to light.)

Is this still the case with current production Hyundai's ? Just
curious. Thanks.
 
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.

The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.

As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.

As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.

The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.

I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
 
Most of what I think these people were referring to was the Asians'
tendency to copy things. And Hyundai's been good at copying other
products.

The 2.4L 4 cyl in the 2000 Sonata is a purely Mitsubishi design, with
Hyundai manufacturing under license from Mitsubishi. The transmission is
a similar deal with Mitsubishi. The 2.7L v6 appears very similar to some
Mitsubishi engines, but I don't believe it's Mitsubishi's design, per se.

As for the electronics, I believe the 2.4 used Mitsubishi while the 2.7
used Bosch. In either event, Hyundai did what's called reverse
engineering. They took a computer system that had already been designed
for fuel and transmission management and built the system around it, while
making the necessary changes to the software.

As for current vehicles, there's still some collaboration. Despite the
fact that Hyundai claimed their transmissions were all new for the 2006
Sonata, they were really (at least in my opinion) nothing more than
revisions of transmissions already in use. I questioned my instructor
about this point and received an answer something like the friction
material being on one side of each metal, instead of having a two-sided
friction disc between each two metals. Big deal. In my opinion, although
somewhat more refined, there aren't any wholesale changes in the
transmissions when compared to your 2000 Sonata.

The 2.4L 4 cylinder now in use was designed by GEMA (Global Engine
Manufacturing Alliance), a joint venture between Daimler-Chrysler,
Hyundai, and Mitsubishi. I've heard no indications that the 3.3 and 3.8
v6 have design anywhere except Hyundai, but that doesn't imply they're not
someone else's engine designs. When Hyundai first began using DOHC engines
in 1992, the claim was that they were "Hyundai" engines, when in fact they
were nothing more than Mitsubishi designs manufactured by Hyundai,
complete with the Mitsubishi design flaws/weaknesses.

I'd have to reread my course materials, but I believe Hyundai is moving
toward using Delphi as their electronics designer/manufacturer on all
their car lines. I've already seen on 2006 Sonatas-- this would also
apply to the Azera and Entourage-- components that now look like they came
off a GM product. This doesn't mean that Hyundai is using GM technology,
but is likely to mean that the system has again been reverse designed.
I.e., Hyundai took a computer system that had already been designed,
installed the necessary components (which look like GM components since
both use the same system), and made minor changes to the software.
Click to expand...


Delphi has been spun off GM and told to find other customers. They
are in bankruptcy and in the process of signficantly reducing the
number of factories they have as well as the pay of the remaining
workers. Rumor has it that Hyundai also approached the old Rochester
Products (I don't recall their current name) about wiper motors for
their US plant and was told they would make them in China but not the
US so Hyundai declined to do business with them. This would lead me
to think Hyundai may be buying the components from US suppliers as a
way to keep up US content.
 
I read somewhere that the o6 Sonata v-6 is a MB design and the Electronic
Stability Control is Bosch...don't remember where now
 
Dave said:
Right after i purchased my 2000 Sonata new, I was told by a couple
informed people that Hyundai borrowed certain technology for their cars
Click to expand...

It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.

For example, American Motors at various times in its history used GM
ignition, Ford carburetors, Ford ignition, GM steering columns, Ford
starters, Borg Warner transmissions, Chrysler automatic transmissions,
Motorola alternators, Saginaw (GM) power steering, New Process
(Chrysler) 4WD transfer cases, and even GM engines in a few models; and
this is in no way an exhaustive list. (The mix in my '75 Hornet is GM
Delco alternator, GM Saginaw power steering, Bendix brakes, Ford
starter, Chrysler automatic transmission, GM steering columns and
Prestolite electronic ignition.)

It would not surprise me at all to find that much of the technology in
Hyundai products is licensed or copied, that kind of thing is pretty
much S.O.P. in the industry.
 
It is very common for smaller car companies to purchase parts and
technology from other manufacturers and vendors.
Click to expand...

This is true for all companies now, not just the small ones. Few car
makers these days make their own brakes, differentials, transmissions,
etc. And a fair number of large companies collaborate on engines and
even entire cars.

Personally, I think it is very wise for Hyundai to see out best-in-class
components and use them. This will result in better performing and
higher quality cars much more quickly than if they climb the learning
curve themselves in all aspects of car manufacture.

Matt
 
Yesterday I was alongside a car that looks like--"styled"-- most/many
other cars.

Then I saw it was a Mercedes Benz, as its front & back are clearly
brand/make specific.

It's not an unfair cliche to hold/think/perceive that Mercedes and
Volvo(?) were copied/emulated by the Japanese, the Koreans and the
Americans, is it?

The boxy-copy style/look seems to have flourished
in the 1980s, or when (?),
, and Mercedes (and Volvo?) had the design
in earlier decades--the 1950s and maybe earlier.


Mercedes may have copied Packard or Rolls etal for all I know.

Bottomline observation: I suppose that everybody copies everybody in
dynamic design,
manufacturing and marketing process.

Occasionally there are patent & trademark publicized legal disputes,
while legal phenomena/decisions do not necessarily explain what the
reality of on-going plagasrism/
emulation is about.
 
The radio in my 06 Sonata is made by Visteon which used to be part of
Ford. Like Delphi, they'll sell parts to anyone with cash to spend.
In theory, everybody wins.

I like the idea of sharing parts and ideas instead of every company
reinventing everything.
Why make your own small engine when you can buy one from GEMA? Why
invent an entire hybrid system when you can license one and get it to
market faster?

Why does every town in the country need their very own custom schools
and administrative buildings? Think of all the money and time that
could be saved if there was a standardized school building, city hall,
etc. The automakers and Walmart -where nearly every store layout fits
into just a handful of different formats- are already doing it.
 
PMDR said:
The radio in my 06 Sonata is made by Visteon which used to be part of
Ford. Like Delphi, they'll sell parts to anyone with cash to spend.
In theory, everybody wins.

I like the idea of sharing parts and ideas instead of every company
reinventing everything.
Why make your own small engine when you can buy one from GEMA? Why
invent an entire hybrid system when you can license one and get it to
market faster?

Why does every town in the country need their very own custom schools
and administrative buildings? Think of all the money and time that
could be saved if there was a standardized school building, city hall,
etc. The automakers and Walmart -where nearly every store layout fits
into just a handful of different formats- are already doing it.
Click to expand...
This is in fact a universal concept and not something only Hyundai are
doing. Infact the editorial column in the July 2006 issue of Car and
Driver talks about this. To Quote from there...
"Vehicles as distinct as the original Audi TT and contempory Volkswage
Golf, the Nissan 350Z sports car and Infiniti FX35/FX45 SUV, and the
Ford Five Hundred sedan and Volvo XC90 SUV share many mechanical and
structural components."
They go on to say...
"In fact, in todays world there are hardly any vehicles priced below
$150,000 that don't use a common platform. Furthermore when it comes to
major components such as engines, transmissions, brakes, and electronic
controls, even the megabuck machines do some sharing."
I mean think of it a sports car & an SUV having slightly customized
verssions of the same platform! I guess it helps all of us when you pay
for either of them as there is less of R & D costs to factor ....
 
The radio in my 06 Sonata is made by Visteon which used to be part of
Ford. Like Delphi, they'll sell parts to anyone with cash to spend.
In theory, everybody wins.

I like the idea of sharing parts and ideas instead of every company
reinventing everything.
Why make your own small engine when you can buy one from GEMA? Why
invent an entire hybrid system when you can license one and get it to
market faster?
Click to expand...


A while back my son was into fancy "BMX" bicycles for jumping and off-road
racing. Well, I helped him find and assemble "hot" parts and build a
first-class bike from scratch. I was AMAZED. You could buy a wide varieties
and prices of rims, sprockets, handlebars, seats, pedals... all very high
tech, and very inexpensive and STANDARD!

Since that experience, I have been frustrated with cars. Why don't the
manufacturers stamp out basic bodies and let the user choose standardized
engines, exhaust, suspension, electronics, even seats? It wouldn't take as
much standardization as you may think. There's already an infrastructure in
place that has standardized oil, batteries, bolts, and nuts.

The car companies are just too big. If things were standardized, excellent
little shops would pop up like mushrooms.
Why does every town in the country need their very own custom schools
and administrative buildings? Think of all the money and time that
could be saved if there was a standardized school building, city hall,
etc. The automakers and Walmart -where nearly every store layout fits
into just a handful of different formats- are already doing it.
Click to expand...

As long as it's public buildings, I'm fine with that. Why hire expensive
architects and engineering firms to re-invent the wheel?
 
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