D
Don Allen
Does anyone know the exact location of the OBD2 connector in the 2006
Elantra?
Thanks,
Don
Elantra?
Thanks,
Don
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D
Don Allen
Does anyone know the exact location of the OBD2 connector in the 2006
Elantra?
Thanks,
Don
I found it. It's directly underneath the lower-left panel below the
steering column, and a few inches to the right of the hood release
lever. It appears to be attached to the panel, and is angled down for
easy access with the scanner connector.
Reason for asking?? My 2006 Elantra's check engine light came on
again today, the second time in about a month. The first time it was
a Code P0172 - Fuel System Rich. Interestingly, the failure mode is
very similar. Considerable driving in hot weather, shutting the car
off, and then after 30 minutes or so, getting back in the car and
driving it away - within the first mile or so the check engine light
comes on. After posting the results of the first incidence,
Hyundaitech feels it may be the PCSV (Purge Control Solenoid Valve).
The dealer went through the trouble shooting diagnostic tree, but
never found the problem after running it through two driving cycles,
thus never replaced anything. So, now a month later, it's on again.
I think Hyundaitech is on the right track. It certainly sounds like
it may be related to an Evaporative Emission Control System problem.
It's logical . . . after driving in hot weather, the vehicle sits for
at least 30 minutes, and it's entirely possible what we're seeing here
is venting (or non-venting in this case), thereby causing the Fuel
System Rich code to be issued by the ECM. Just my thoughts . . .
maybe the solenoid valve sticks closed, thereby preventing venting
into the cannister?
Although the car is under warranty, it's a bit of a hassle to return
the car to the dealership each time if this is going to happen all of
the time. If I had an option, I would simply shotgun replace the
PCSV, but so far the dealer has not done so. Perhaps he is reluctant
to do so due to the warranty costs??
The is a long-winded summary of why I think I may invest in an OBD2
scan tool. The one I'm looking at is the Equus Innova 3130. Any
comments would be appreciated.
H
hyundaitech
Actually, the PCSV controls when the engine sucks the vapors out of the
canister. It's normally closed, but if it becomes stuck open, the engine
will suck in vapors when it's expecting none, causing a rich condition.
I've also seen something similar to this in a couple cases where the
canister was flooded with fuel.
canister. It's normally closed, but if it becomes stuck open, the engine
will suck in vapors when it's expecting none, causing a rich condition.
I've also seen something similar to this in a couple cases where the
canister was flooded with fuel.
D
Don Allen
Thanks Hyundaitech. I have an dealer appointment tomorrow for the
CEL, and we'll see what happens. If it's another P0172 DTC, I hope
they do something other than just reset it, and run the car through
two drive cycles, and say all is OK. Obviously, I'm not knowledgeable
on Hyundai's dealer policy on warranty parts replacement, but I would
hope that they begin looking at replacing the PCSV or canister.
Going back and forth to the dealer without actually "fixing the
problem" is not very convenient, and is starting to tick off my wife
(it's her car). If it's an intermittent PCSV, they may never actually
see the valve in its failure mode. Although I may be wrong, I'll bet
if it wasn't in warranty they would replace the part straight away.
In looking at past forum posts on CELs on Edmunds.com, it appears the
P0172 DTC is the most common reason for a CEL in an Elantra.
CEL, and we'll see what happens. If it's another P0172 DTC, I hope
they do something other than just reset it, and run the car through
two drive cycles, and say all is OK. Obviously, I'm not knowledgeable
on Hyundai's dealer policy on warranty parts replacement, but I would
hope that they begin looking at replacing the PCSV or canister.
Going back and forth to the dealer without actually "fixing the
problem" is not very convenient, and is starting to tick off my wife
(it's her car). If it's an intermittent PCSV, they may never actually
see the valve in its failure mode. Although I may be wrong, I'll bet
if it wasn't in warranty they would replace the part straight away.
In looking at past forum posts on CELs on Edmunds.com, it appears the
P0172 DTC is the most common reason for a CEL in an Elantra.
H
hyundaitech
"Although I may be wrong, I'll bet if it wasn't in warranty they would
replace the part straight away."
Hard to say. This isn't as clear a relationship as most mechanics would
like. Certainly, some checking should be done prior to replacing
anything. If I couldn't find any problems, then I'd consider just
dropping the PCSV on. But not without managerial authorization (or
customer authorization if not warranty). Certainly the paying customer
should be made to understand that this is just a guess so that they're
aware of the gamble they're making with their money.
At the very least, you should be able to demand that some action be taken.
The check engine lamp doesn't come on for no reason. And codes don't
store for no reason. There's something wrong when this occurs. If the
dealer again attempts to reset the light and perform no repairs (without a
plausible explanation such as a code for an evaporative system leak for
which no leak was found, causing them to suspect the fuel cap was loose
and later tightented), start asking some tough questions. What
specifically was checked? Have you contacted technical assistance? Speak
to the service manager if necessary. If the dealer isn't really attempting
to repair your vehicle, call Hyundai's customer assistance number
(800-633-5151) and complain. By the same token, you'll need to understand
that if they cannot find anything wrong and take a guess, there's no
guarantee that their guess will fix the car, either. So it's important to
remember that the dealer is indeed attempting to fix the car, and to not
get upset if you still need to make return visits because the guess was
incorrect.
replace the part straight away."
Hard to say. This isn't as clear a relationship as most mechanics would
like. Certainly, some checking should be done prior to replacing
anything. If I couldn't find any problems, then I'd consider just
dropping the PCSV on. But not without managerial authorization (or
customer authorization if not warranty). Certainly the paying customer
should be made to understand that this is just a guess so that they're
aware of the gamble they're making with their money.
At the very least, you should be able to demand that some action be taken.
The check engine lamp doesn't come on for no reason. And codes don't
store for no reason. There's something wrong when this occurs. If the
dealer again attempts to reset the light and perform no repairs (without a
plausible explanation such as a code for an evaporative system leak for
which no leak was found, causing them to suspect the fuel cap was loose
and later tightented), start asking some tough questions. What
specifically was checked? Have you contacted technical assistance? Speak
to the service manager if necessary. If the dealer isn't really attempting
to repair your vehicle, call Hyundai's customer assistance number
(800-633-5151) and complain. By the same token, you'll need to understand
that if they cannot find anything wrong and take a guess, there's no
guarantee that their guess will fix the car, either. So it's important to
remember that the dealer is indeed attempting to fix the car, and to not
get upset if you still need to make return visits because the guess was
incorrect.
D
Don Allen
I fully understand, as I used to turn wrenches on SAABs and Volvos.
It was a shop which functioned the old-fashioned way, even letting
customers back in the service area. It was very similar to the 50s
and 60s British sports car dealerships. Obviously, I will give the
Hyundai dealer the benefit of the doubt, and work with them. I am,
however, more understanding than my wife.
It will be interesting to see what DTC is stored this time. If it's
the same P0172 code, I would hope they would look into some corrective
maintenance. I know the fuel cap can't be the reason as I'm very
careful with that each time I fuel the car. That is, unless the cap
is faulty and leaking, which is always possible. I hope it isn't the
PCSV, as it looks a bit difficult to get to - unless a tech is able to
do so from beneath the car. Otherwise, it looks like you have to
dismantle much of the intake area, at least forward of the MAF or AMM
(depending upon which terminology Hyundai uses).
I did order a compatible OBD-II diagnostic scanner. With two cars
with OBD-II systems, I thought it would be a good idea, if only to
know which codes are being issued by the ECM. It wasn't cheap, but I
will add it to my inventory of other auto test equipment and tools.
It was a shop which functioned the old-fashioned way, even letting
customers back in the service area. It was very similar to the 50s
and 60s British sports car dealerships. Obviously, I will give the
Hyundai dealer the benefit of the doubt, and work with them. I am,
however, more understanding than my wife.
It will be interesting to see what DTC is stored this time. If it's
the same P0172 code, I would hope they would look into some corrective
maintenance. I know the fuel cap can't be the reason as I'm very
careful with that each time I fuel the car. That is, unless the cap
is faulty and leaking, which is always possible. I hope it isn't the
PCSV, as it looks a bit difficult to get to - unless a tech is able to
do so from beneath the car. Otherwise, it looks like you have to
dismantle much of the intake area, at least forward of the MAF or AMM
(depending upon which terminology Hyundai uses).
I did order a compatible OBD-II diagnostic scanner. With two cars
with OBD-II systems, I thought it would be a good idea, if only to
know which codes are being issued by the ECM. It wasn't cheap, but I
will add it to my inventory of other auto test equipment and tools.
M
Mike Marlow
Don Allen said:I fully understand, as I used to turn wrenches on SAABs and Volvos.
It was a shop which functioned the old-fashioned way, even letting
customers back in the service area. It was very similar to the 50s
and 60s British sports car dealerships. Obviously, I will give the
Hyundai dealer the benefit of the doubt, and work with them. I am,
however, more understanding than my wife.
Maybe it's the area I live in, but I've never yet encountered a dealer or
shop that did not let the customer into the service bays. Nothing "old
fashioned" about that.
H
hyundaitech
Actually, the PCSV is behind/underneath the intake manifold and very easy
to access on your car.
to access on your car.
D
Don Allen
An update . . . I took the 2006 Elantra into the dealer yesterday,
and the DTC was once again P0172. According to the Service Advisor,
the tech called Hyundai's techline, and they recommended replacing the
upstream O2 sensor, which was done. I don't believed they checked the
PCSV, as I suggested to them. Interestingly, they claim this is the
first time they've seen consecutive P0172 codes - which I find
interesting and doubtful. We'll see what happens - if the CEL comes
on again in 4 or 5 weeks, I may take the car to another dealer!
The dealer in this case does not allow customers in the service area.
This is a new "mega dealer" with Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Scion,
Mitsubishi, Chrysler, VW, and Mazda franchises, and multiple dedicated
show rooms. Toyota and Scion, as well as VW, have their own dedicated
service areas, whereas all others are serviced in one giant service
area. It's a beautiful dealership covering many acres, and thousands
of cars in inventory, plus the customer waiting areas and restrooms
would make some upscale hotels proud, with flat screen plasma TVs
hanging from the walls, free Wi-Fi, free donuts and coffee, and a
plethora of other amenities. I would gladly exchange all of this
luxury for successful troubleshooting and repair the first time by a
tech when a problem occurs. OTOH, I understand how difficult it can
be to pinpoint problems in today's technically loaded vehicles.
and the DTC was once again P0172. According to the Service Advisor,
the tech called Hyundai's techline, and they recommended replacing the
upstream O2 sensor, which was done. I don't believed they checked the
PCSV, as I suggested to them. Interestingly, they claim this is the
first time they've seen consecutive P0172 codes - which I find
interesting and doubtful. We'll see what happens - if the CEL comes
on again in 4 or 5 weeks, I may take the car to another dealer!
The dealer in this case does not allow customers in the service area.
This is a new "mega dealer" with Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Scion,
Mitsubishi, Chrysler, VW, and Mazda franchises, and multiple dedicated
show rooms. Toyota and Scion, as well as VW, have their own dedicated
service areas, whereas all others are serviced in one giant service
area. It's a beautiful dealership covering many acres, and thousands
of cars in inventory, plus the customer waiting areas and restrooms
would make some upscale hotels proud, with flat screen plasma TVs
hanging from the walls, free Wi-Fi, free donuts and coffee, and a
plethora of other amenities. I would gladly exchange all of this
luxury for successful troubleshooting and repair the first time by a
tech when a problem occurs. OTOH, I understand how difficult it can
be to pinpoint problems in today's technically loaded vehicles.
H
hyundaitech
When a code P0172 sets, the thing that actually triggers the fuel trim
value. If the technician looks at the freeze frame data, there'll be
something like -25% fuel trim. If the technician then looks at the
current data, and the fuel trims are normal (no more than +/- 10% or so)
under similar conditions, the technician already knows that whatever the
problem was isn't occurring right now.
It's hard to say whether the PCSV was inspected or even whether it's your
problem. Technical assistance has a tool that no other technician has-- a
nationwide pool of data. So, if the problem isn't currently occurring
(enabling normal diagnostics), following the advice of technical
assistance is typically the next best attempt. I don't have that warm
fuzzy feeling about replacing the oxygen sensor, but again, I also don't
have anywhere near the amount of data available to tech assistance.
At this point, I think the dealer is indeed trying, and switching to
another dealer prior to resolving this issue may cause some of the same
steps to be repeated, with inconvenience to you.
value. If the technician looks at the freeze frame data, there'll be
something like -25% fuel trim. If the technician then looks at the
current data, and the fuel trims are normal (no more than +/- 10% or so)
under similar conditions, the technician already knows that whatever the
problem was isn't occurring right now.
It's hard to say whether the PCSV was inspected or even whether it's your
problem. Technical assistance has a tool that no other technician has-- a
nationwide pool of data. So, if the problem isn't currently occurring
(enabling normal diagnostics), following the advice of technical
assistance is typically the next best attempt. I don't have that warm
fuzzy feeling about replacing the oxygen sensor, but again, I also don't
have anywhere near the amount of data available to tech assistance.
At this point, I think the dealer is indeed trying, and switching to
another dealer prior to resolving this issue may cause some of the same
steps to be repeated, with inconvenience to you.