Pump in Tank

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by taters2, Sep 22, 2006.

  1. taters2

    taters2 Guest

    Has everyone went to the fuel pump in tank and why?
    taters2, Sep 22, 2006
  2. taters2

    hyundaitech Guest

    Three reasons:

    1. Electric pumps don't suck fuel very well, but do a good job pushing
    it. If they were near the front of the vehicle, there would likely be a
    difficult priming process if you ever ran out of gas.

    2. The fuel in the tank helps keep the pump cool.

    3. The tank acts as noise insulation, making the pump less annoying than
    if it were mounted externally to the tank.
    hyundaitech, Sep 22, 2006
  3. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Less chance of vapor lock is one reason.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 22, 2006
  4. A fellow I work with never lets his tank get below 1/4 for that reason. He
    figures the pump will stay cooler and last longer. Any thoughts on that?
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 22, 2006
  5. taters2

    Darby OGill Guest

    4.......much more expensive to replace ! Is a shaft driven mechanical
    pump obsolete ? Why ? They can't rob that much power, can they?
    Darby OGill, Sep 22, 2006
  6. I recall replacing a few of those old mechancial pumps. Maybe I've been
    lucky, but I've yet to replace an in tank electric.
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 22, 2006
  7. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I've heard lots of thoughts on this, but I've seen no data. I
    personally believe this is an OWT (old wives tale). I believe the pump
    is cooled by the gas it is pumping (most pumps are designed to have the
    gas flow through the pump body), not the gas surrounding it. The
    closest I've seen to data is from a person in another auto newsgroup who
    claimed to have worked for a fuel pump company and he said this also.
    The other reason I believe this is that I've never seen a single car
    maker warn against running below 1/4 tank in any published document
    (owner's manual, TSB, shop manual, etc.). If anyone has seen such,
    please send me a reference.

    The other reason is simple personal experience. I often run my cars
    until the fuel is quite low, even occasionally until the low fuel
    warning light illuminates. I've only had one fuel pump fail and that
    was in a minivan with 150,000 miles on it. My Chevy truck has been run
    low often, and even run out three times and it is still going strong
    after 13 years and 95,000 miles.

    It certainly doesn't hurt to refill before 1/4 tank if that makes you
    feel better, but I personally think it is making extra fuel stops for no
    good reason.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 22, 2006
  8. I usually fill more often in the winter. It just means I have a shorter
    time to stand outside pumping the gas and freezing my ass off. The self
    service savings myth has taken on quite a life over the years. In MA, some
    towns do not allow self serve. The stations selling full serve are the same
    price as the self serves down the street in the next town.
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 23, 2006
  9. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    But it means you stand outside in the cold more often! I tend to fill
    up more in the winter also, but the reason is that I like to have more
    gas reserve in case I get stuck or something and have to spend the night
    in the car.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 23, 2006
  10. You can always start the pump, then sit in the car while it fills the
    tank. It the station is one of the stupid ones that removes the latches
    from the pump handles, use your gas cap or one of the devices made for
    holding the pump lever to keep the pump running while you sit in the
    car. For that matter, you can make one really easily.
    Brian Nystrom, Sep 23, 2006
  11. I agree that electric pumps are more reliable. I've replaced one in 30+
    years of driving and I typically drive my cars over 150K miles. The one
    I replaced was in a '79 Saab and it was a known problem with the pumps
    they used.
    Brian Nystrom, Sep 23, 2006
  12. Fuel injection pretty much eliminated that problem, though your point is
    still valid.
    Brian Nystrom, Sep 23, 2006
  13. I do that often even in good weather so I can clean the windshield or
    whatever. Hard to find a pump with a latch these days but there is one I
    station I use often. The Self Serve pumps also seem to pump slower than the
    older ones too.

    The one Shell station go use has a printed warning on the handle not to
    leave the pump. The fear is static shock when you get out of the car in
    winter and cause an arc. I always ground myself getting out anyway. .
    This was interesting.
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 23, 2006
  14. taters2

    hyundaitech Guest

    Those warnings are for real. Gas fires have happened because of the static
    discharge upon leaving the vehicle to return the nozzle. First
    recommendation is to not re-enter the vehicle until you're finished
    pumping. Second recommendation is to be sure you're discharged prior to
    returning to the nozzle area.
    hyundaitech, Sep 23, 2006
  15. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I haven't seen a fuel injector yet that takes fuel direction from the
    tank and injects it into the engine. The fuel needs to get from the
    tank to the point of injection so there is still lots of fuel line that
    can vapor lock if not under pressure or with sufficent flow. Fuel
    injection doesn't change much with respect to vapor lock.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 23, 2006
  16. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Preventing fuel spills is also a big concern. If the automatic shut-off
    fails, a lot of gas can be spilled by the time you realize it when you
    are on the other side of the car washing windows.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 23, 2006
  17. And you can get hit by a car crossing the street so wear clean underwear.

    Yes, it can happen. Have you ever been to a station on the Jersey Turnpike
    or the like? Or in a busy city station? One attendant will often be
    fueling three or four cars at a time. It is a scenario that happens
    thousands of times a day all over the country. They depend on the automatic
    shut-off to work. So do I.
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 24, 2006
  18. taters2

    Matt Whiting Guest

    A lot of dumb things get done in NJ. Just remember that in most states
    you can and will be held liable for the clean-up costs. I hope you have
    good insurance as that can get pricey.

    Matt Whiting, Sep 24, 2006
  19. Matt, for the past 45 years I've been driving, I've probably bought fuel
    over 3000 times. During that time, I've seen tens of thousands of cars
    filled either by self serve or attendants. Maybe I've just been lucky, but
    I've never seen a spill from a defective pump shutoff. This sort of
    activity has been going on all over the world, tens of thousands of time a
    day. I suspect it has happened, but not enough that I'm going to change my
    ways, nor will I worry about the cleanup costs. Just light a match and it
    will be clean in seconds.

    If you ever see me at the pump, just wave and move on because I'm not going
    to grab the handle just to calm your fears. If they were a serious danger,
    they would have been eliminated many years ago.
    Edwin Pawlowski, Sep 24, 2006
  20. taters2

    Eric G. Guest

    Actually, I think a better, and more accurate statement, would be that a
    lot of dumb things get done in every state.

    In my late teens and early twenties I was a petroleum distribution
    engineer here in NJ. I worked at a very busy highway station (not on
    the NJTP) and we would sometimes have eight cars going on one attendent,
    with up to 24 cars fueling simultaneously. Not only did we NEVER have a
    shutoff failure, I never even heard of that happening until you
    mentioned it above. I would have to say that it is damn near
    impossible. But I am sure it has probably happened somewhere. And
    didn't someone get killed recently by falling debris from an airplane?
    I would think that might be more likely than a spill from a failed fuel

    Eric G., Sep 24, 2006
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