Sonata LX and XG350 owners - what mpg are you averaging?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robin
  • Start date Start date
R

Robin

city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
 
I've got an 03 Sonata LX. I drive the car normally 90% of the time
but I also lean into it occasionally. I tend to average about 20-21
mpg. That's mostly "city" driving (35-60 mph, at least 1 stop per
mile). When I take longer trips where I can cruise at 75 mph then I
tend to get about 25-26 mpg.
 
Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
Bob
 
city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
Click to expand...

My Sonata is the 2000 GLS V6. I get 20-22 City and a top of 28MPG
highway.

Old_Timer
 
BJ said:
Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
Bob
Click to expand...

You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
that might be correctable?
 
Robin said:
city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
Click to expand...

I have a 2003 Sonata LX V6. In mostly city driving I get right around
20 mpg. On the highway, driving about 70-75 mph, I've gotten as much as
28 mpg. Cruise control definitely helps the mileage.

John
 
You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
that might be correctable?
Click to expand...

It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
HP.

As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
 
Jason said:
It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
HP.

As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
Click to expand...

Jason,
Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
that can be used in any make car?
1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
mpg of only 17.
3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
Robin
 
Jason,
Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
that can be used in any make car?
1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
Click to expand...

K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
contaminants than the OE filter.
 
Jason,
Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
that can be used in any make car?
1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
mpg of only 17.
3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
Robin
Click to expand...

1. The filter I'm talking about is the air filter. K&N makes a part
for almost every vehicle so yes, you can get one for the Sonata, XG,
or Accord.

Most newer cars have very restrictive intake and exhaust systems. The
K&N air filter is more free-flowing than the stock factory parts used
by most manufacturers. In addition, it is not a disposable filter.
It does need to be periodically cleaned but this is a task that only
needs to be done every 20-30K miles unless you live in a very dusty
area. Less restriction in either the intake and exhaust will add
power as well as gas mileage.

2. The filters will, most likely, not be identical so you would need
to decide on what vehicle you are going to get before you buy the
filter. You can check on the needed part number @ the K&N web site
(http://www.knfilters.com).

3. No, the only other NG I frequent is alt.os.linux.gentoo. I do,
however, frequent several online message boards: [H]ard|Forum for
tech stuff, HyundaiPerformance, HyundaiAftermarket, NewTiburon, and
SonataSpeed for Hyundai stuff.
 
K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
contaminants than the OE filter.
Click to expand...

Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
anything about automobiles.

It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
mileage.

As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
hover between 97-99%.
 
Jason said the following on 1/5/2004 7:23 PM:
Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
anything about automobiles.

It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
mileage.

As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
hover between 97-99%.
Click to expand...
Will they void the warranty in any way? I am concerned about this.
 
Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
anything about automobiles.

It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
mileage.

As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
hover between 97-99%.
Click to expand...


============================================================
2000 Toyota Tundra SR5

Engine: 4.7 L / 8 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
Mileage: 26,434 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 5TBBT441XYS047306

Symptoms: MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Idle
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

hi all thanks for all the replies to this post. i knew all
about the maf problems but was glad to hear from all of you
about what i suspected all along. the problem wasnt the
maf,it was the aftermarket k&n intake system that 'adds
horsepower' lol. i compaired the g/s with another tundra
that happened to come in the next day and found that at
idle the K&N system saw 2g/s less at idle and 4g/s less at
2k rpm. decided to swap maf for fun. maf worked grate in oe
intake no problems. ordered up oe intake system installed
and drove vehicle fuel trim adjusted its self back to 0.
with after market intake too much unmetered air was
entering the intake system causing all 4 o2 sensors to show
0v on aceleration. with the suport of the iatn was able to
show and convince the customer that the K&N intake dosent
alwas help and sometimes cause problems. thanks hugh

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

hi all got this tundra in the shop strait from the
dealer.well it left the dealer about 400 miles ago.the
problem is system too lean fuel trim code.let me tell you
what i know about this truck first. i beleave that this is
a rich kids truck. customer states that he was off roading
in the desert when his aftermarket k$n intake fell off and
sucked a bunch of sand in the engine. result daeler
installed new engine. customer pay about 11k. now he states
that check engine light on with p0171. peformed smoke test
to check for vac leak none found. manifold vacuum is
21hg.engine stlii equiped withk$n intake and dealer
recomends oe air intake to solve the problem? freez frame
data is 692rpm 0mph 192f 11.3load ltftb1&b2=34.4 stftb115.6
b214.8 fuel press normal maf reading 4grm/sec the only
other thing to add is that i noticed on the scaner that all
4 o2 sensors went to 0 when climbing a hill? any and all
help apriceated.
=================================================
2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE

Engine: 3.5 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection / SEFI
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
Mileage: 48,665 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: JN8DR09Y51

Misc Data: Calif.
Symptoms: Cuts out, Stall, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Always
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

A new (rebuilt actually) MAF fixed it. All the evidence was
there, but I appreciate everybody's input. It really was
fairly cut and dry. 12v was good, 5v was good, ground was
good, but the MAF signal wouldn't change at all. I checked
it right out of the sensor and it was always right at 1
volt. I felt checking at the sensor ruled out wiring or PCM
problems. I don't think I mentioned in my original post
that it had a K & N air filter. Today I noticed on a 98
Sable a message molded into the air filter box that oiled
air filters might void the MAF warranty. I guess Ford
doesn't like them. Ther were signs of oil on the screen in
the MAF housing.

Nissan and some of you said this should be covered 3
years/50,000 miles. The customer refused to take it to the
dealer, which is unfortunate, because I have found our
local deater to be responsible and capable. Thanks
everybody.

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

Vehicle was cruising down the highway when Check Engine
light came on. Then it started running bad. After they
stopped, vehicle wouldn't run. Actually, it will idle, but
when throttle is applied, it coughs and dies, like a not-
enough-fuel problem. P0100 and P1320 were in memory. In
pending codes were:

P0340: Cam positon sensor

P0464: Fuel level sensor

P1140: Right bank intake valve timing control position
sensor

P0732: Incorrect shift to 2nd gear

P1320 and P0100

The only code that comes back after clearing is P0100, MAF
sensor.

In testing the 4 wires, 3 are OK: Blk/wht-bat. voltage,
blk/pink-ground,pink/blk-5 v.

The orange wire, however should vary from 1 v at KOEO to
2.2 v at 2500 RPM to 4.0 v at 4000 RPM.

I am only getting 1 v all the time. Actually, it won't run
much above 1500 RPM before it falls on it's face.

It looks like a bad MAF, but at $488 I need to be sure. Is
there anything else I should check? Does this fall under
any kind of federal emission warranty?

I am inclined to ignore the other codes until I deal with
the P0100.

Thanks for any input.
================================================
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Engine: 3.4 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
Mileage: 36,463 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 4TAWN72N3XZ

Symptoms: Poor Fuel Economy, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Always
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

Thanks to IATN, another customer is driving his REPAIRED
vehile with a minimum of trouble or unnecessary expense. I
replaced the MAF, re-scanned the vehicle, and as the ECU
re-established its running information, watched as it
brought the LTFT back to a more normal range. The idle
started out very rough at first, which concerned me, but
after 20 minutes of normal driving, it smoothed out, and
the LTFT went from -40% ) -35% )-20% ) -9.4% and was
running very nicely as the happy customer drove off. By the
way, I was able to talk him into putting a Toyota air
filter back into the vehicle as well. Thanks to everyone
for the help and advice! Stephen

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

This Tacoma will trigger the DTC light very soon after
erasing the PO 172 code-system too rich. OBD 2 scaning
shows the LTFT trying to lean out the system as much as 40%
@ idle, and less as the load/throttle use increases. I am
not able to find any information on the air/fuel sensor,
and the scanner does not provide any information when
plugged in. Does anyone have a recommendation to test the
units, either with a scanner or current probe? Thanks for
your time
================================================
1996 Toyota Tacoma

Engine: 2.7 L / 4 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributor-Breakerless
Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
Mileage: 75,134 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 4TAPM62NOTZ212410

Symptoms: No Start, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: After a Hot Soak
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

Well thanks again to the IATN members for help of another
successful fix! The problem was an oil contaminated hotwire
(air flow meter) the oil was from a K&N air filter. I
cleaned it with brake clean and then test drove while
monitoring the STFT and LTFT, the STFT immediatly dropped
from 25 percent to a negative 3 percent, the LTFT of course
was a little slower to respond but also started dropping
negative. Repair verified! Thanks to all who responded!

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

This vehicle has power loss and intermittently starts hard
(extended crank times) especially after hot soak. Although
the customer has intalled an aftermarket intake system (not
intake manifold) the factory airflow meter and air intake
temp sensor are installed. The fuel pressure is within
specs and does not bleed down. The O2 sensors also check
good. The scan tool shows the airflow at idle at about
3.5-3.7 g/s, is this correct? For some reason the Snap-On
scanner does not give me "normal values" for this vehicle.
All ideas are appreciated and TIA.
=================================================
 
Jason said the following on 1/5/2004 7:23 PM:

Will they void the warranty in any way? I am concerned about this.
Click to expand...

Adding aftermarket parts (ANY aftermarket parts) cannot be cause for
the dealer to void the warranty on your car. What will happen,
however, is that you will lose the warranty on the part you replace
(which isn't really applicable in this case). For example, if you
were to replace the lower resonator, air box, intake tube, and upper
resonator on a Sonata LX with an AEM CAI (made for the Tiburon, most
V6 Tib parts will fit the 02-04 V6 Sonata) you would lose the warranty
on all the parts you removed. The remainder of the warranty can only
be voided if your aftermarket modifications caused another part to
fail. For example, if you install a CAI (without a bypass valve) and
you suck up a gallon of water by driving through a 6 inch "puddle" and
your engine hydrolocks, your CAI (and poor driving habits) are at
fault, the dealer will not cover the replacement engine and labor. If
your alternator dies the dealer can't void the warranty because there
is no way that a CAI caused that problem.

Back on the part at hand, there is no way that a quality aftermarket
air filter can void any part of any warranty, in fact, many dealers
offer aftermarket parts (that don't void the warranty) as dealer
add-ons.

Along that line, on January 15th, select Hyundai dealerships in the
USA will begin selling aftermarket parts (like new exhaust systems,
intake modifications, superchargers and turbochargers, body kits,
etc.) badged under the name "H.A.R.D. Parts." This plan was announced
at SEMA.
 
Those people are stupid. First of all, oil should not be dripping off
of the filter. Second, when re-oiling the filter you spray on the
outside (so that the oil must pass through the filter). Third, it
sounds more like the person had a full intake system (like K&N's
Typhoon of FPIK). That means that they removed the entire stock
intake up to the throttle body and replaced it with the K&N product.
The problem here is obvious.. Engine vibration (combined with
off-roading) WILL pull a cone filter right off the end of a tube
unless you crank it down REAL tight. The fault here is not K&N, the
blame lies with whoever installed the intake.

I've been using K&N filters for years and have never had a problem.
In fact, I just pulled apart my intake tube. There is not a drop of
oil on my MAF.

Oh, and you should NEVER, NEVER install a cone filter right to the end
of the MAF. It is well known that this will cause problems because
the increased air flow will cause quite a bit of vibration. The MAF
should be at least 4-6 inches from a cone filter.

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS FOLKS AND THINGS DON'T BREAK!

 
I haven't checked in awhile, but my XG 350 seems to average about 25 hwy,
18-20 city. The lack of a computer setting that shows current and average
mpg is one of my main reservations about my '02 model. Not positive, but I
believe the feature was added in '03.
-Les
 
So are the people who blindly believe that K&Ns magically increase power
by just replacing a filter. CANNOT HAPPEN. The stock paper element will
flow much more air than the engine can ever draw in, So if you already
have to much air how can a higher flowing filter make a difference, It
cannot. Also you do know that it K&N themselves explain that their
filters let in more "non-harmful" (their words not mine) particles than
a factory filter. It is on their site that they don't consider particles
under a certain size to be a problem because the oil film "should" be
thicker than that size. I guess those particles couldn't ever stack up
and cause problems huh? Oh and before you start bragging about the
racers using the K&N consider that race engines are torn down after an
event and any item considered marginal is replaced, this works out to be
just about everything in the engine short of the block, heads, intake
and sometimes the crank. These parts are also magnafluxed and
repolished every time they come off as well. The BIG reason the K&N gets
used is that they hand them out for very low price to most racers who
use them.
Also make sure you read how their filter also filters better as it gets
dirty, hmm I wonder if that's because the dirt clogs the larger pore in
the gauze?
Oh and I don't have anything against K&N other than they very seldom
prove their claims. Kind of like slick 50 and the Vortex inserts, claim
everything with the statements that all start with "up to" or
"possible". Well it is "possible",if you add up all the gains, to gain
almost 50% more HP and use 70% less fuel IF they all met even the lowest
claims they make, Guess what it doesn't happen.

--
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the
security of a free State, the right of the people to keep
and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Steve Williams
I am the NRA
http://www.nra.org/
http://www.mooreexposed.com/ Go here to read the truth about gun
controls poster boy....
http://armingamericafraud.grimfacts.org/ And more about the Arming
America Lies.

Jason said:
Those people are stupid. First of all, oil should not be dripping off
of the filter. Second, when re-oiling the filter you spray on the
outside (so that the oil must pass through the filter). Third, it
sounds more like the person had a full intake system (like K&N's
Typhoon of FPIK). That means that they removed the entire stock
intake up to the throttle body and replaced it with the K&N product.
The problem here is obvious.. Engine vibration (combined with
off-roading) WILL pull a cone filter right off the end of a tube
unless you crank it down REAL tight. The fault here is not K&N, the
blame lies with whoever installed the intake.

I've been using K&N filters for years and have never had a problem.
In fact, I just pulled apart my intake tube. There is not a drop of
oil on my MAF.

Oh, and you should NEVER, NEVER install a cone filter right to the end
of the MAF. It is well known that this will cause problems because
the increased air flow will cause quite a bit of vibration. The MAF
should be at least 4-6 inches from a cone filter.

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS FOLKS AND THINGS DON'T BREAK!

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
If you don't trust K&N, that's fine, don't use their products. Still,
they DO make a difference in MPG and HP. Have you ever used a K&N air
filter? Back when I decided to give K&N a try I was a little
skeptical as well. That's why I decided to install the filter without
my girlfriend's knowledge. I let her drive the Sonata to go out to
the grocery store. The first thing she said when she got back was
"Did you do something to the car? It seems a little peppier."

It's not about the quantity of O2 you can cram into the cylinders,
it's about eliminating restriction. Sure, you can stick a 1" exhaust
pipe on a 3.0L engine but the car isn't going to make any serious
power above 2500 RPM. The best size would be 2.25-2.5" because it can
easily flow the exhaust at redline but maintains enough back pressure
to keep your low-end torque.

Why did people a decade or two ago remove the catalytic converters
(before inspections came about) from their cars? It was because the
cats are very restrictive and replacing them with a straight pipe
freed up 5-15 HP (depending on a few other factors) and increased gas
mileage.

The same principle goes to work here on the intake. By eliminating
restriction in the intake you can free up some power and slightly
increase gas mileage.

Oh, and yes, particles under a few microns in size will not do any
damage to the engine because the you change the oil every 3000 miles
(or at least you should). Also, Slick 50 is mineral oil and the
Vortex and Tornado Air products don't work on fuel injected vehicles
but HAVE shown some promising results when installed on carbureted
engines.
 
If you don't trust K&N, that's fine, don't use their products. Still,
they DO make a difference in MPG and HP. Have you ever used a K&N air
filter? Back when I decided to give K&N a try I was a little
skeptical as well. That's why I decided to install the filter without
my girlfriend's knowledge. I let her drive the Sonata to go out to
the grocery store. The first thing she said when she got back was
"Did you do something to the car? It seems a little peppier."

It's not about the quantity of O2 you can cram into the cylinders,
it's about eliminating restriction. Sure, you can stick a 1" exhaust
pipe on a 3.0L engine but the car isn't going to make any serious
power above 2500 RPM. The best size would be 2.25-2.5" because it can
easily flow the exhaust at redline but maintains enough back pressure
to keep your low-end torque.

Why did people a decade or two ago remove the catalytic converters
(before inspections came about) from their cars? It was because the
cats are very restrictive and replacing them with a straight pipe
freed up 5-15 HP (depending on a few other factors) and increased gas
mileage.

The same principle goes to work here on the intake. By eliminating
restriction in the intake you can free up some power and slightly
increase gas mileage.

Oh, and yes, particles under a few microns in size will not do any
damage to the engine because the you change the oil every 3000 miles
(or at least you should). Also, Slick 50 is mineral oil and the
Vortex and Tornado Air products don't work on fuel injected vehicles
but HAVE shown some promising results when installed on carbureted
engines.
Click to expand...

Are we talking about race cars or about family transportation
vehicles. I would have no reason whatsoever to try to get a couple
more horsepower out of my family car. Hyundai extended the warranty
on my Sonata because the tested HP was a little bit less than the
published HP. I gladly accepted the extra warranty but I had no grief
at all in regard to the published HP and the tested HP. The car, a
V6, has all the power that I need in a family car. Had I been
interested in having a car with a more powerful engine I would have
bought something that had a larger more powerful engine.

Old_Timer
 
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