Transmission oil change

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Khaj, Apr 29, 2006.

  1. Khaj

    Khaj Guest

    I have 40K miles on my car 2001 Elantra. The dealer is asking following
    things to be done; -
    1) Change transmission oil =$170
    2) Change A/c belt = $117
    3) Change power steering fluid = $135
    I assume (1) is needed, what anout 2 & 3. How to check.
    Are the rates OK for Atlanta/dealers. Do I need to go to dealer or go
    to anyother shop. Can one do these on your own.
    What is the best way to check break pads/transmission belt.
    Any tips are welcome. My cars will be 5 years on 6/14. Any
    checks/repalcements recommeded before I am out of warranty.
    Thanks in advance
     
    Khaj, Apr 29, 2006
    #1
  2. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest


    What does your owner's manual say? The prices sound horrendously high.
    I can get my transmission fluid and filter changed for about $70 at my
    local Chrysler dealer for my minivan. I can't believe an Elantra is
    that much more work than a minivan.

    Most vehicles don't require the PS fluid to ever be changed. My last
    minivan had 178,000 miles on it on the original PS fluid with no
    problems. I don't know how much longer it would have lasted as it was
    totaled at that mileage by a drunk.

    I'm not familiar with the belt system on an Elantra, but unless they
    have to jack up the engine to replace the belt, the quoted price sounds
    horrendous.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Apr 29, 2006
    #2
  3. I was told by my local Florida dealer the transmission fluid had to be
    changed every 30K miles in a '00 Accent in order for the transmission
    to be covered by the factory warranty. The price your being quoted is
    for a flush. A drain and fill is perfectly acceptable and should cost
    half that. If you take it somewhere other than the dealer make sure
    they only use SPIII fluid. Universal transmission fluid like your
    local auto parts store sells will screw it up. If you change your own
    motor oil, your perfectly capable of changing the transmission fluid.
    Expect to pay $6 for a quart of SPIII fluid at your local dealer.

    The A/C belt should not need to be changed before the 60K mile timing
    belt change. The only exception would be if it's been loose and has
    suffered premature wear as a result.

    The power steering fluid would only need to be changed if the car's
    been submerged in a pond.

    If you have 40K miles on the original front brake pads, they need to be
    changed. The only way to check them is to jack up the car, pull the
    wheel and visually inspect them.

    Your transmission does not have a belt.

    --
     
    Screwtape III, Apr 30, 2006
    #3
  4. Puh-leeze! These service shops never cease to amaze me.

    -Shop around for the tranny fluid work as surely it can be done cheaper(but
    as someone else pointed out, make sure the right fluid is used). In my
    world this is the only service you even might need;

    -A/C belt? Not likely, but a flashlight will show if there are any
    tell-tale cracks. I agree with another poster that the best time to have
    that replaced is when you get the timing belt replaced, usually around
    60,000 miles, and you have to take this off anyway;

    -Power Steering fluid??????? I have noticed the tendency for dealers to
    start trying to change things that are just plain never changed in a car.
    The first was brake fluid. I am closer to being convinced that, in cars
    with ABS, it may not be a bad idea to change it every 2-3 years, but
    otherwise have never seen a car that needed it (unless like another poster
    said, the car was submerged in water).

    But I have never, ever, ever heard of a need to change power steering fluid
    in any care. In fact,that would be my tip that this garage is probably a
    racket.

    The only other legitimate one I can think of is coolant. Has that been at
    least drained and refilled, if not flushed?

    My advice to you is to get your necessary parts from the Hyundai dealer as
    you need them(timing belts, etc.), and find someone honest to work on your
    car. Otherwise your next "recommended" repair may be for a broken
    disgronficator, an expensive part indeed.

    Tom Wenndt
     
    Rev. Tom Wenndt, Apr 30, 2006
    #4
  5. Khaj

    Bob Guest

    I think that you've said in the past that ATF +4 has been declared an
    acceptable substitute for SP-III. Now that REAL ATF +4 is available at
    Auto-Zone for $3.69, that would be a great price.
     
    Bob, May 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Khaj

    hyundaitech Guest

    Most of those prices seem high, even for the inflated DC area. But I don't
    know what the going rates are in Atlanta.

    As far as the transmission fluid, do as Matt said and check your manual.
    I'm pretty sure the recommendation is about 100k miles on the tranny
    fluid, but check your manual to be safe. I wouldn't want to send you in
    the wrong direction and have it cost you. But it's also important to
    check the transmission fluid. If it's dark brown, it's probably a good
    idea to flush the transmission (or drain and refill it).

    If you take a flashlight and look down at the a/c belt under your hood,
    you'll probably be able to see some pretty significant cracking of the
    ribs where it goes over the tensioner pulley (because the belt is bent
    backward). This belt usually starts cracking at around 30k miles or 3
    years, so I would expect it probably is a good idea to replace at 40k.

    Your car uses Dexron ATF as power steering fluid. There is no maintenance
    recommendation in the owner's manual, so I wouldn't do anything to service
    it unless you take a sample of fluid from the reservoir and it's
    absulotely gross.

    Your brake pads should be visually inspected for thickness. Once they
    reach 2/32 inch, replace them. If you know what you're looking for, you
    can probably see the outer pad through the wheel.

    This flush business is something many shops have started doint to increase
    profitability. I agree they can be a valuable service under the right
    circumstances, but the whole thing winds up being pretty much a racket. A
    partnership develops between the dealer and the additive company. The
    additive company typically provides the machines as long as you use their
    product (or works out some other deal putting the shop on the hook). I'm
    not particularly proud that in my shop we are pressured to sell brake,
    power steering, coolant, transmission flushes as well as 4wd servicing and
    a "performance" oil change which basically runs some detergent oil through
    then engine prior to doing an oil change. The shop's recommendation on
    the flush services is 2 years/24k miles, which I find particularly gross.
    I don't think I've once recommended a power steering or brake flush
    (although there is some debate over the value of the brake flush -- I'll
    discuss below). I do recommend coolant flushes based on condition of
    coolant and maintenance interval (2 years for Hyundai) and transmission
    flushes based on fluid condition. The service personnel at the shop
    typically receive some sort of spiff to use the additive product. Look
    closely at what they're proposing to do in each of these flushes. I'll
    bet that each has an additive or some "special" fluid from a particular
    automotive chemical supplier. Usually, it's about $.25 to $.5 per service
    for the tech. I have no idea how advisors and managers are spiffed, but I
    do know that it happens, at least in some cases. That's right; these
    products are so good the company pays the shop employees to use them.
    Ultimately, it makes the whole thing stink and causes suspicion when such
    a service is actually a good idea.

    Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning water bonds to it. So, if your brake
    fluid absorbs water over time, this water can in turn begin to corrode
    your metal hydraulic brake components (such as wheel cylinders) and
    accelerate their failure or leakage. I personally believe that the brake
    hydraulic system is largely a closed system which is rarely open to the
    atmosphere. As such, its absorbance of water should be minimal.

    I can think of little reason to recommend a power steering flush. There
    are some older (pre-90s) GM products (particularly Celebrity, 6000, Ciera,
    and Century) which tend to have poor cold assist issues which I have seen
    the flushes partially alleviate.
     
    hyundaitech, May 1, 2006
    #6
  7. Khaj

    dave Guest

    'I'm pretty sure the recommendation is about 100k miles on the tranny
    fluid, but check your manual to be safe. I wouldn't want to send you in
    the wrong direction and have it cost you. But it's also important to
    check the transmission fluid. If it's dark brown, it's probably a good
    idea to flush the transmission (or drain and refill it).'

    REPLY: Dont wait till 100 k. miles to change your trans. fluid ; do it
    every 35 or 40 k. miles -- its cheap insurance. Make sure whoever does
    it uses a machine that does a complete flush incl. the torque converter.
     
    dave, May 2, 2006
    #7
  8. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    This reply is an urban legend. Flushes are almost never necessary.
    Changing the transmission fluid and filter more often than the manual
    recommends is also almost never needed.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Khaj

    dave Guest

    Dont wait till 100 k. miles to change your trans. fluid ; do it
    every 35 or 40 k. miles -- its cheap insurance. Make sure whoever does
    it uses a machine that does a complete flush incl. the torque converter.

    This reply is an urban legend. Flushes are almost never necessary.
    Changing the transmission fluid and filter more often than the manual
    recommends is also almost never needed.
    Matt

    RESPONSE : This reply is the urban legend ; transmission fluid serves
    many important roles , including but not limited to , cooling and
    shifting of the transmission internals under pressure . Advertising
    100,000 mile changes on transmission fluid, spark plugs, and coolant is
    not only unnecessarily risky considering the small negliable price of
    routine maintenance , but it is primarily a pitch by the Manufacturer
    for the potential Buyer to be awe-struck by thinking he has hardly
    anything to do to the car once he buys it. For the Owner who truly
    values taking car of his/her car, that person should NEVER listen to
    the sensational message that nothing needs changing for 100,000 miles .
    That would be simular to a person getting a BLood Test every 50 years.
     
    dave, May 2, 2006
    #9
  10. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    It's your money, waste it at will.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 3, 2006
    #10
  11. Your response is pretty much what I have always felt, across the board.

    Regarding the brake system flush, I could even see where one might want to
    take such additional precautions with ABS, but not otherwise.

    My problem is that fewer and fewer garages are doing the tranny fluid and
    filter change - most have gone to these machines. If I have a tranny fluid
    drain bolt, I will do it myself (Hyundai's and Kia's usually have them, most
    others don't).

    Tom Wenndt
     
    Rev. Tom Wenndt, May 3, 2006
    #11
  12. 'It's your money, waste it at will.
    Matt'

    REPLY: Its not 'a waste' ; its called good preventive maintenance.
    For the people who put high mileage on their cars before trading them
    in, its especially wise. If you get rid of your cars every 3 years,
    then , theres not much point.

    ____________________________________________
    "The only thing necessary for evil to continue, is for good (tolerant)
    men to do nothing" -- C.S. Lewis.
    ____________________________________________
     
    Dave in Lake Villa, May 4, 2006
    #12
  13. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I put 178,000 miles on a 1996 Plymouth Grand Caravan following the
    manufacturer's recommended transmission fluid and filter changes. The
    transmission never required work and this is with the infamous Chrysler
    41TE (I think I got that right going from memory) transmission that is
    supposed to be so fragile. The van was running great when a drunk hit
    me and totaled it last December.

    I stand by my statement that changing the transmission fluids, or any
    others for that matter, more often than the manufacturer requires is
    simply wasting money. If it gives you peace of mind to waste money,
    then that is your prerogative.

    Maintenance is only preventive if it is preventing something. Changing
    the fluids more often than recommended simply doesn't prevent anything.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 4, 2006
    #13
  14. Khaj

    dave Guest

    'I put 178,000 miles on a 1996 Plymouth Grand Caravan following the
    manufacturer's recommended transmission fluid and filter changes. The
    transmission never required work and this is with the infamous Chrysler
    41TE (I think I got that right going from memory) transmission that is
    supposed to be so fragile.'

    REPLY: Im willing to bet that Chrysler didnt suggest 100,000 miles on a
    Trans. fluid change for their 1996 MiniVan either ; maybe you can find
    out what it was and report. Ill bet it was more like 50,000 miles (or
    less) . Further, this story is simular to the guy that started
    smoking 2.5 packs of cigarettes per day at 18 and made it to 80 ---
    there will always be some that beat the odds. I owned 2 Chrysler
    MiniVans with that infamous transmission and none of them made it past
    90,000 miles before trans. failure.

    'I stand by my statement that changing the transmission fluids, or any
    others for that matter, more often than the manufacturer requires is
    simply wasting money. If it gives you peace of mind to waste money, then
    that is your prerogative.'

    REPLY: Its 'not wasting money' when the manufacturer is pushing it to
    the limit on maintenance durations to make the vehicle (and them) look
    good.

    'Maintenance is only preventive if it is preventing something.'

    REPLY: I couldnt agree more.

    'Changing the fluids more often than recommended simply doesn't prevent
    anything.'

    REPLY: Only if you have complete faith in the Manufacturers MO ; common
    sense and being in a Mechanical Trade tells me not to.
     
    dave, May 5, 2006
    #14
  15. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I don't have the manuals for the vehicle any longer so I can't look it
    up. I was thinking it was in the 50,000 mile range also and I believe
    that is roughly the intervals when I had the fluid and filter changed.
    My point isn't the absolute number of miles, that will likely vary by
    vehicle and by severe vs. normal service. My point is that the
    manufacturer's recommendation for the type of driving you do is
    typically fairly conservative. There is simply no need to perform
    maintenance more frequently than required.

    And how do you know this? Are you a transmission designer?

    Common sense is very often wrong. I know a lot of folks whose common
    sense tells them that an automatic that shifts very smoothly will last
    longer than one that shifts very firmly. This generally isn't true, at
    least it wasn't true a few years ago. A firm shift means the clutches
    are slipping for a much shorter time. Smooth shifts required lots of
    clutch slippage and thus wear. This certainly wasn't intuitive or
    "common sense."

    Modern cars often reduce engine power during the shift so that you can
    have both smooth shifts and reasonable wear, but my point remains that
    things which are "common sense" are very often wrong.

    Transmission fluid isn't like engine oil. It doesn't see contaminants
    from combustion that form the nasty acids and such that make the life of
    engine oil fairly short. Unless you are towing or really abusing your
    automatic, the only thing the oil has to deal with is wear material from
    the transmission itself. With a good filter, this isn't a problem for
    many, many miles. I've never seen a transmission filter even close to
    being clogged even after 50,000 miles. The other issue for the fluid is
    heat, but again is is rarely a problem unless you are towing. And then
    the manufacturer's change intervals are typically a lot shorter.

    So, realistically compare your driving environment to the description in
    the maintenance section of your owner's manual, select the appropriate
    maintenance schedule, follow it, and you'll be fine. No need to do
    things twice as frequently, unless you like wasting money and time.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 5, 2006
    #15
  16. 'My point isn't the absolute number of miles, that will likely vary by
    vehicle and by severe vs. normal service. My point is that the
    manufacturer's recommendation for the type of driving you do is
    typically fairly conservative. There is simply no need to perform
    maintenance more frequently than required.'

    REPLY: My point is that you canNOT trust the Manufacturer's advertised
    maintenance claims ; which is why I change my fluids more often myself
    using all synthetics...except for the Trans Flush/Drain which i have a
    local shop perform. Ive seen the condition of fluids after the
    Manufacturers suggested maintenance schedule...and its rediculous
    pushing it to that extreme.

    'Its 'not wasting money' when the manufacturer is pushing it to
    the limit on maintenance durations to make the vehicle (and them) look
    good.

    And how do you know this? Are you a transmission designer?'

    REPLY: I am an avid reader of Technical Articles written by Authoritys
    in various mechanical fields in addition to having worked in a related
    Mechanical Trade for over 30 years at a maintenance/teardown/rebuild
    level. Car Manufacturers, like Car Dealers, cannot be 100% trusted to
    give the correct story when it comes to maintenance...in addition to
    design in many cases.

    'Common sense is very often wrong. '

    REPLY: Common sense which comes from a mechanically oriented person ,
    is usually right. Especially if that person has had first hand
    experience from a design, application, and repair standpoint.

    'Transmission fluid isn't like engine oil. It doesn't see contaminants
    from combustion that form the nasty acids and such that make the life of
    engine oil fairly short. Unless you are towing or really abusing your
    automatic, the only thing the oil has to deal with is wear material from
    the transmission itself. With a good filter, this isn't a problem for
    many, many miles. I've never seen a transmission filter even close to
    being clogged even after 50,000 miles. The other issue for the fluid is
    heat, but again is is rarely a problem unless you are towing. And then
    the manufacturer's change intervals are typically a lot shorter. '

    REPLY: Automotive Transmission Oil OFTEN SEES contaminants in the form
    of metal particulates, acidity, and condensation . And heat IS OFTEN a
    problem in modern auto Transmissions especially in hot climates and/or
    mostly city driving where the clutches are constantly shifting ; heavy
    cargo loads or people loads contribute to the issue. Go to
    www.amsoil.com for further education on this subject.

    'So, realistically compare your driving environment to the description
    in the maintenance section of your owner's manual, select the
    appropriate maintenance schedule, follow it, and you'll be fine. No need
    to do things twice as frequently, unless you like wasting money and
    time.'

    REPLY: And keep in mind that 100,000 mile suggested changing of fluids,
    spark plugs, and coolant...come from Manufacturers who very often have
    an ulterior motive .

    ____________________________________________
    "The only thing necessary for evil to continue, is for good (tolerant)
    men to do nothing" -- C.S. Lewis.
    ____________________________________________
     
    Dave in Lake Villa, May 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Amsoil ... that explains it all.


    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 10, 2006
    #17
  18. Khaj

    dave Guest

    'Go to www.amsoil.com for further education on this subject. '

    Amsoil ... that explains it all.
    Matt'

    REPLY: Yes, their website does explain the work that Trans. Fluid has
    to perform in a modern Automobile ; do a google and youll find many
    more technical articles on how Trans. Oil breaks down in addition to its
    causes. For as much money as you have spent on your Automobile(s) , you
    really should avail yourself to further education on this topic and not
    be such a tightwad when it comes to changing fluids. This will
    conclude our discussion.

    End.
     
    dave, May 10, 2006
    #18
  19. Khaj

    Finn Guest

    for a mere 60$ I flush my auto transmission every year.
    I wait till i get my Spring saving coupons in the mail from Hyundai then I
    bring her in and have it done.
    pretty cheap insurance, 60$ flush -- 3000$ transmission.

    also have the cooling system flushed at the same time.


    Finn.
     
    Finn, May 10, 2006
    #19
  20. Khaj

    Matt Whiting Guest

    P.T. Barnum was right.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, May 10, 2006
    #20
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