Transmission oil change

I have 40K miles on my car 2001 Elantra. The dealer is asking following
things to be done; -
1) Change transmission oil =$170
2) Change A/c belt = $117
3) Change power steering fluid = $135
I assume (1) is needed, what anout 2 & 3. How to check.
Are the rates OK for Atlanta/dealers. Do I need to go to dealer or go
to anyother shop. Can one do these on your own.
What is the best way to check break pads/transmission belt.
Any tips are welcome. My cars will be 5 years on 6/14. Any
checks/repalcements recommeded before I am out of warranty.
Thanks in advance

 

What does your owner's manual say? The prices sound horrendously high.
I can get my transmission fluid and filter changed for about $70 at my
local Chrysler dealer for my minivan. I can't believe an Elantra is
that much more work than a minivan.

Most vehicles don't require the PS fluid to ever be changed. My last
minivan had 178,000 miles on it on the original PS fluid with no
problems. I don't know how much longer it would have lasted as it was
totaled at that mileage by a drunk.

I'm not familiar with the belt system on an Elantra, but unless they
have to jack up the engine to replace the belt, the quoted price sounds
horrendous.


Matt

 

I was told by my local Florida dealer the transmission fluid had to be
changed every 30K miles in a '00 Accent in order for the transmission
to be covered by the factory warranty. The price your being quoted is
for a flush. A drain and fill is perfectly acceptable and should cost
half that. If you take it somewhere other than the dealer make sure
they only use SPIII fluid. Universal transmission fluid like your
local auto parts store sells will screw it up. If you change your own
motor oil, your perfectly capable of changing the transmission fluid.
Expect to pay $6 for a quart of SPIII fluid at your local dealer.

The A/C belt should not need to be changed before the 60K mile timing
belt change. The only exception would be if it's been loose and has
suffered premature wear as a result.

The power steering fluid would only need to be changed if the car's
been submerged in a pond.

If you have 40K miles on the original front brake pads, they need to be
changed. The only way to check them is to jack up the car, pull the
wheel and visually inspect them.

Your transmission does not have a belt.

--

 

Puh-leeze! These service shops never cease to amaze me.

-Shop around for the tranny fluid work as surely it can be done cheaper(but
as someone else pointed out, make sure the right fluid is used). In my
world this is the only service you even might need;

-A/C belt? Not likely, but a flashlight will show if there are any
tell-tale cracks. I agree with another poster that the best time to have
that replaced is when you get the timing belt replaced, usually around
60,000 miles, and you have to take this off anyway;

-Power Steering fluid??????? I have noticed the tendency for dealers to
start trying to change things that are just plain never changed in a car.
The first was brake fluid. I am closer to being convinced that, in cars
with ABS, it may not be a bad idea to change it every 2-3 years, but
otherwise have never seen a car that needed it (unless like another poster
said, the car was submerged in water).

But I have never, ever, ever heard of a need to change power steering fluid
in any care. In fact,that would be my tip that this garage is probably a
racket.

The only other legitimate one I can think of is coolant. Has that been at
least drained and refilled, if not flushed?

My advice to you is to get your necessary parts from the Hyundai dealer as
you need them(timing belts, etc.), and find someone honest to work on your
car. Otherwise your next "recommended" repair may be for a broken
disgronficator, an expensive part indeed.

Tom Wenndt

 

I think that you've said in the past that ATF +4 has been declared an
acceptable substitute for SP-III. Now that REAL ATF +4 is available at
Auto-Zone for $3.69, that would be a great price.

 

Most of those prices seem high, even for the inflated DC area. But I don't
know what the going rates are in Atlanta.

As far as the transmission fluid, do as Matt said and check your manual.
I'm pretty sure the recommendation is about 100k miles on the tranny
fluid, but check your manual to be safe. I wouldn't want to send you in
the wrong direction and have it cost you. But it's also important to
check the transmission fluid. If it's dark brown, it's probably a good
idea to flush the transmission (or drain and refill it).

If you take a flashlight and look down at the a/c belt under your hood,
you'll probably be able to see some pretty significant cracking of the
ribs where it goes over the tensioner pulley (because the belt is bent
backward). This belt usually starts cracking at around 30k miles or 3
years, so I would expect it probably is a good idea to replace at 40k.

Your car uses Dexron ATF as power steering fluid. There is no maintenance
recommendation in the owner's manual, so I wouldn't do anything to service
it unless you take a sample of fluid from the reservoir and it's
absulotely gross.

Your brake pads should be visually inspected for thickness. Once they
reach 2/32 inch, replace them. If you know what you're looking for, you
can probably see the outer pad through the wheel.

This flush business is something many shops have started doint to increase
profitability. I agree they can be a valuable service under the right
circumstances, but the whole thing winds up being pretty much a racket. A
partnership develops between the dealer and the additive company. The
additive company typically provides the machines as long as you use their
product (or works out some other deal putting the shop on the hook). I'm
not particularly proud that in my shop we are pressured to sell brake,
power steering, coolant, transmission flushes as well as 4wd servicing and
a "performance" oil change which basically runs some detergent oil through
then engine prior to doing an oil change. The shop's recommendation on
the flush services is 2 years/24k miles, which I find particularly gross.
I don't think I've once recommended a power steering or brake flush
(although there is some debate over the value of the brake flush -- I'll
discuss below). I do recommend coolant flushes based on condition of
coolant and maintenance interval (2 years for Hyundai) and transmission
flushes based on fluid condition. The service personnel at the shop
typically receive some sort of spiff to use the additive product. Look
closely at what they're proposing to do in each of these flushes. I'll
bet that each has an additive or some "special" fluid from a particular
automotive chemical supplier. Usually, it's about $.25 to $.5 per service
for the tech. I have no idea how advisors and managers are spiffed, but I
do know that it happens, at least in some cases. That's right; these
products are so good the company pays the shop employees to use them.
Ultimately, it makes the whole thing stink and causes suspicion when such
a service is actually a good idea.

Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning water bonds to it. So, if your brake
fluid absorbs water over time, this water can in turn begin to corrode
your metal hydraulic brake components (such as wheel cylinders) and
accelerate their failure or leakage. I personally believe that the brake
hydraulic system is largely a closed system which is rarely open to the
atmosphere. As such, its absorbance of water should be minimal.

I can think of little reason to recommend a power steering flush. There
are some older (pre-90s) GM products (particularly Celebrity, 6000, Ciera,
and Century) which tend to have poor cold assist issues which I have seen
the flushes partially alleviate.

 

'I'm pretty sure the recommendation is about 100k miles on the tranny
fluid, but check your manual to be safe. I wouldn't want to send you in
the wrong direction and have it cost you. But it's also important to
check the transmission fluid. If it's dark brown, it's probably a good
idea to flush the transmission (or drain and refill it).'

REPLY: Dont wait till 100 k. miles to change your trans. fluid ; do it
every 35 or 40 k. miles -- its cheap insurance. Make sure whoever does
it uses a machine that does a complete flush incl. the torque converter.

 

This reply is an urban legend. Flushes are almost never necessary.
Changing the transmission fluid and filter more often than the manual
recommends is also almost never needed.


Matt

 

Dont wait till 100 k. miles to change your trans. fluid ; do it
every 35 or 40 k. miles -- its cheap insurance. Make sure whoever does
it uses a machine that does a complete flush incl. the torque converter.

This reply is an urban legend. Flushes are almost never necessary.
Changing the transmission fluid and filter more often than the manual
recommends is also almost never needed.
Matt

RESPONSE : This reply is the urban legend ; transmission fluid serves
many important roles , including but not limited to , cooling and
shifting of the transmission internals under pressure . Advertising
100,000 mile changes on transmission fluid, spark plugs, and coolant is
not only unnecessarily risky considering the small negliable price of
routine maintenance , but it is primarily a pitch by the Manufacturer
for the potential Buyer to be awe-struck by thinking he has hardly
anything to do to the car once he buys it. For the Owner who truly
values taking car of his/her car, that person should NEVER listen to
the sensational message that nothing needs changing for 100,000 miles .
That would be simular to a person getting a BLood Test every 50 years.

 

It's your money, waste it at will.

Matt

 

Your response is pretty much what I have always felt, across the board.

Regarding the brake system flush, I could even see where one might want to
take such additional precautions with ABS, but not otherwise.

My problem is that fewer and fewer garages are doing the tranny fluid and
filter change - most have gone to these machines. If I have a tranny fluid
drain bolt, I will do it myself (Hyundai's and Kia's usually have them, most
others don't).

Tom Wenndt

 

'It's your money, waste it at will.
Matt'

REPLY: Its not 'a waste' ; its called good preventive maintenance.
For the people who put high mileage on their cars before trading them
in, its especially wise. If you get rid of your cars every 3 years,
then , theres not much point.

____________________________________________
"The only thing necessary for evil to continue, is for good (tolerant)
men to do nothing" -- C.S. Lewis.
____________________________________________

 

I put 178,000 miles on a 1996 Plymouth Grand Caravan following the
manufacturer's recommended transmission fluid and filter changes. The
transmission never required work and this is with the infamous Chrysler
41TE (I think I got that right going from memory) transmission that is
supposed to be so fragile. The van was running great when a drunk hit
me and totaled it last December.

I stand by my statement that changing the transmission fluids, or any
others for that matter, more often than the manufacturer requires is
simply wasting money. If it gives you peace of mind to waste money,
then that is your prerogative.

Maintenance is only preventive if it is preventing something. Changing
the fluids more often than recommended simply doesn't prevent anything.


Matt

 

'I put 178,000 miles on a 1996 Plymouth Grand Caravan following the
manufacturer's recommended transmission fluid and filter changes. The
transmission never required work and this is with the infamous Chrysler
41TE (I think I got that right going from memory) transmission that is
supposed to be so fragile.'

REPLY: Im willing to bet that Chrysler didnt suggest 100,000 miles on a
Trans. fluid change for their 1996 MiniVan either ; maybe you can find
out what it was and report. Ill bet it was more like 50,000 miles (or
less) . Further, this story is simular to the guy that started
smoking 2.5 packs of cigarettes per day at 18 and made it to 80 ---
there will always be some that beat the odds. I owned 2 Chrysler
MiniVans with that infamous transmission and none of them made it past
90,000 miles before trans. failure.

'I stand by my statement that changing the transmission fluids, or any
others for that matter, more often than the manufacturer requires is
simply wasting money. If it gives you peace of mind to waste money, then
that is your prerogative.'

REPLY: Its 'not wasting money' when the manufacturer is pushing it to
the limit on maintenance durations to make the vehicle (and them) look
good.

'Maintenance is only preventive if it is preventing something.'

REPLY: I couldnt agree more.

'Changing the fluids more often than recommended simply doesn't prevent
anything.'

REPLY: Only if you have complete faith in the Manufacturers MO ; common
sense and being in a Mechanical Trade tells me not to.

 

I don't have the manuals for the vehicle any longer so I can't look it
up. I was thinking it was in the 50,000 mile range also and I believe
that is roughly the intervals when I had the fluid and filter changed.
My point isn't the absolute number of miles, that will likely vary by
vehicle and by severe vs. normal service. My point is that the
manufacturer's recommendation for the type of driving you do is
typically fairly conservative. There is simply no need to perform
maintenance more frequently than required.

And how do you know this? Are you a transmission designer?

Common sense is very often wrong. I know a lot of folks whose common
sense tells them that an automatic that shifts very smoothly will last
longer than one that shifts very firmly. This generally isn't true, at
least it wasn't true a few years ago. A firm shift means the clutches
are slipping for a much shorter time. Smooth shifts required lots of
clutch slippage and thus wear. This certainly wasn't intuitive or
"common sense."

Modern cars often reduce engine power during the shift so that you can
have both smooth shifts and reasonable wear, but my point remains that
things which are "common sense" are very often wrong.

Transmission fluid isn't like engine oil. It doesn't see contaminants
from combustion that form the nasty acids and such that make the life of
engine oil fairly short. Unless you are towing or really abusing your
automatic, the only thing the oil has to deal with is wear material from
the transmission itself. With a good filter, this isn't a problem for
many, many miles. I've never seen a transmission filter even close to
being clogged even after 50,000 miles. The other issue for the fluid is
heat, but again is is rarely a problem unless you are towing. And then
the manufacturer's change intervals are typically a lot shorter.

So, realistically compare your driving environment to the description in
the maintenance section of your owner's manual, select the appropriate
maintenance schedule, follow it, and you'll be fine. No need to do
things twice as frequently, unless you like wasting money and time.


Matt

 

'My point isn't the absolute number of miles, that will likely vary by
vehicle and by severe vs. normal service. My point is that the
manufacturer's recommendation for the type of driving you do is
typically fairly conservative. There is simply no need to perform
maintenance more frequently than required.'

REPLY: My point is that you canNOT trust the Manufacturer's advertised
maintenance claims ; which is why I change my fluids more often myself
using all synthetics...except for the Trans Flush/Drain which i have a
local shop perform. Ive seen the condition of fluids after the
Manufacturers suggested maintenance schedule...and its rediculous
pushing it to that extreme.

'Its 'not wasting money' when the manufacturer is pushing it to
the limit on maintenance durations to make the vehicle (and them) look
good.

And how do you know this? Are you a transmission designer?'

REPLY: I am an avid reader of Technical Articles written by Authoritys
in various mechanical fields in addition to having worked in a related
Mechanical Trade for over 30 years at a maintenance/teardown/rebuild
level. Car Manufacturers, like Car Dealers, cannot be 100% trusted to
give the correct story when it comes to maintenance...in addition to
design in many cases.

'Common sense is very often wrong. '

REPLY: Common sense which comes from a mechanically oriented person ,
is usually right. Especially if that person has had first hand
experience from a design, application, and repair standpoint.

'Transmission fluid isn't like engine oil. It doesn't see contaminants
from combustion that form the nasty acids and such that make the life of
engine oil fairly short. Unless you are towing or really abusing your
automatic, the only thing the oil has to deal with is wear material from
the transmission itself. With a good filter, this isn't a problem for
many, many miles. I've never seen a transmission filter even close to
being clogged even after 50,000 miles. The other issue for the fluid is
heat, but again is is rarely a problem unless you are towing. And then
the manufacturer's change intervals are typically a lot shorter. '

REPLY: Automotive Transmission Oil OFTEN SEES contaminants in the form
of metal particulates, acidity, and condensation . And heat IS OFTEN a
problem in modern auto Transmissions especially in hot climates and/or
mostly city driving where the clutches are constantly shifting ; heavy
cargo loads or people loads contribute to the issue. Go to
www.amsoil.com for further education on this subject.

'So, realistically compare your driving environment to the description
in the maintenance section of your owner's manual, select the
appropriate maintenance schedule, follow it, and you'll be fine. No need
to do things twice as frequently, unless you like wasting money and
time.'

REPLY: And keep in mind that 100,000 mile suggested changing of fluids,
spark plugs, and coolant...come from Manufacturers who very often have
an ulterior motive .

____________________________________________
"The only thing necessary for evil to continue, is for good (tolerant)
men to do nothing" -- C.S. Lewis.
____________________________________________

 

Amsoil ... that explains it all.


Matt

 

'Go to www.amsoil.com for further education on this subject. '

Amsoil ... that explains it all.
Matt'

REPLY: Yes, their website does explain the work that Trans. Fluid has
to perform in a modern Automobile ; do a google and youll find many
more technical articles on how Trans. Oil breaks down in addition to its
causes. For as much money as you have spent on your Automobile(s) , you
really should avail yourself to further education on this topic and not
be such a tightwad when it comes to changing fluids. This will
conclude our discussion.

End.

 

for a mere 60$ I flush my auto transmission every year.
I wait till i get my Spring saving coupons in the mail from Hyundai then I
bring her in and have it done.
pretty cheap insurance, 60$ flush -- 3000$ transmission.

also have the cooling system flushed at the same time.


Finn.

 

P.T. Barnum was right.

Matt