Where's the Hybrids!

With gas going to $3 a gal for 97 octane, I want over 40 mpg not 23 on
average city/shy combined with the Santa Fe. Tucsons are but fleet
service only, so lets get building for the regular repeat purchaser!!!!

 

yuup hyundais draggin there ass on the hybrid thing for northamerica.
id love a diesel, even more so a hybrid diesel =)

 

its about 3.70 here for a gallon, 1.00 a litre, im glad we have a accent.

 

I'm almost looking forward to the $3.50 a gall July price spike....It'll get
a bunch of idiots off the roads here.
Should lead back to car pools and lighter traffic. Huge mammoth trucks
driven by 4'11'' soccer moms with a I'm getting even with the world
attitudes tend to annoy me. 6K LB Trucks with only a driver might be a bit
rarer on the parkways. Two car families might go back to having 1 good size
sedan and a small runabout for the short 1 person trips vs a Suburban &
Hummer. Cafe rules might force a fleet mileage increase for once vs the
current Loophole heaven.

 

arent you the lucky one gas just hit $102.9 cents per LITRE here in
Canada on vancouver island...

 

| yuup hyundais draggin there ass on the hybrid thing for
northamerica.
| id love a diesel, even more so a hybrid diesel =)

Diesel = cough, choke: particulates. Stink.
On the other hand, there's something called "clean diesel." I
don't know how really clean it is. Gas is, of course, more
refined, so inherantly cleaner-burning. Good idea.

Richard

 

| > yuup hyundais draggin there ass on the hybrid thing for
northamerica.

I think we can let the Koreans off the hook about this one. I'll
explain. I've discovered that here in Silicon Valley, Korean
companies have actually been doing their R&D. I suspect that a
good amount of their auto design (certainly styling) has been
done in California, too (Los Angeles, in this case).

There are some aspects of American engineering that I've found in
my Sonata. I can't talk much yet about this because I haven't had
the car long. But my ears really perked up when Hyundaitech
reported that my transmission actually has a drain plug: Hooray!
That's the way American engineers like to design, and it's what
you'd get in an American car before the penny-pinching cost
vultures suck the quality out.

My Ford Aerostar had no coolant bleed valve. You know how you
bleed the air form a Ford Aerostar? Simple: you tilt the entire
goddamn van and wait for the bubbles to go to the top. You do
this three times. Who decided to remove the bleed valve and why?

We can excuse the Koreans because they've not been in the car
business that long, and they've done rather nicely, considering.

The US carmakers have no such excuse. Honda was working on a
solar car in 1974. Was Detroit? Detroit car makers have behaved
as if oil people sit on their boards. There's no other
explanation I can think of to explain why they'd rather lose huge
amounts of business to foreign firms than to make an efficient
car.

I've seen a patent for a hybrid American truck dated 1926!
Various forms of regeneration have been used in electric
railroads since the early 20th Century. We had a good example
here in the American West until surrounding mergers put the
carrier under.

Dunno.

It would seem that we would benefit from a Federal incentive
crash program for domestic efficient cars -- hybrids certainly.
Will the current Administration or Congress step up to the plate
on this one? What would the patriotic thing be to do?

Richard

 

wow a 2 c difference, not much actually, but i wonder how high its going to
go?
Im smack in middle of canada just 4 hrs from manitoba border in ont

 

diesels ive seen rarely smoke or stink, the tdi's

 

I've seen diesels that didn't smoke, but they all stink.

 

So why did you buy a Santa Fe? Get rid of it and buy an Accent. Problem
solved.

 

Until we get cleaner, higher quality diesel in the US that is cheaper to buy
than regular unleaded (as is the case in the UK), diesels really aren't
going to take off. If the best selling 1 series BMW in the UK is the
120D -- and not just because of the cheaper fuel and better mileage -- then
it proves it is possible to create a DERV that doesn't sound like a piece of
farm equipment at idle or at speed.

Diesel has a bad reputation in the US, and that needs to change.

 

Well, I don't really know enough about technology, but I have owned a
few cars

If an Hyundai hybrid (comparable to the Honda & Toyota hybrids) can be
acquired retail in the high U.S . Dollar teens, then here's some easy
predictions:

10. Detroit & its other competitors will try to suppress it via malign
p.r. techniques
9. There will be a Hyundai hybrid waiting list ad infinitum
9. The usual idiotic U.S. politicians will say, "duh, we're full of
bullshite," just as they've been saying to themselves with their
fingers up their ...since 1973
8. Newspaper new car ad sales will be "bye-bye," because who cares
about that bait 'n switch garbage they advertise in color rotogravure
7. TV car ads ditto, especially during the 11pm news
6. ________________ will accuse Korea of unfair trade practices (The
usual schmuckes & whoever)
5. The SUV will be put into museums with dinosaurs where it fuggin
belongs
4. Andy Rooney will throw a pie at a $3 a gallon gasolene sign at the
end of a SIXTY MINUTES about war in the Middle East to protect oil
....after a Morley Bradley Wallace Stahl Craft piece called "CATCH 22 Is
Alive & Well, Suckers"
3.--1. that's enuff, while i beg the fates at hyundai for it to happen
asap

 

We had been purchasing Chrysler products exclusively since the late 70s, but
bought a Hyudai Accent for my son as a Christmas present in 2003. We bought
a Hyundai 350L for my wife last November. Within the next few months, I be
ready to buy a new vehicle for myself, but it won't be a Hyundai.

I've decided my next vehicle will be a hybrid, and that eliminates Hyundai
from consideration. Hyundai now produces a quality product... just not the
right product... at least not for me!

 

There is a long article in the actual ATLANTA CONSTITUTION this morning
regarding the hybrid car situation

www.ajc.com

If anybody can find & link/post it, please do--just be sure to note it
is "copyrighted 2005 by the ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION" if ya post it

The usual fools have got it hidden, or whatever their interneter
does
with some of their more important articles

Here's what I recall while coffeeing:

The bad Toyota has mucho hybrid patents--85 patents or whatever

The semi-good Toyota licenses a patent to Ford for its SUV
Explorer hybrid

My perception: Toyota isn't gonna allow a major & incredibly growing
competitor Hyundai to do what's manifestly in the overall world's
public interest asap: cost-beneficial retail hybrid car available in
the upper teens of U.S. Dollars (a third or so less than the Prius
sells for)

The Prius sells for in the high 20's, or do I have this wrong?

That's the way (I subjectively perceive) catch 22 marketplace reality
so often is

Meanwhile, hey, let's just spend ourselves & heirs into financial
dependence oblivion for that cheap (yeah, sure) !@#$%^&*()_+ Middle
Eastern terrorist-tinged f'ing oil, so that the marketplace can work
its perverse magic

Caveat: The above are my opinions, and if ya think otherwise, then I
hope you're correct, because I have a sense of tragedy/absurdity of
which I would not want to be reality but fear it is close to the
truth(s)

Tell me that approx current Prius/Hyundai
$10,000 difference doesn't substantially matter to you

 

Stinking is in the nose of the beholder...

 

|
| There is a long article in the actual ATLANTA CONSTITUTION this
morning
| regarding the hybrid car situation
|
| The bad Toyota has mucho hybrid patents--85 patents or
whatever
|
| The semi-good Toyota licenses a patent to Ford for its
SUV
| Explorer hybrid
|
| My perception: Toyota isn't gonna allow a major & incredibly
growing
| competitor Hyundai to do what's manifestly in the overall
world's
| public interest asap: cost-beneficial retail hybrid car
available in
| the upper teens of U.S. Dollars (a third or so less than the
Prius
| sells for)
|
....
| Meanwhile, hey, let's just spend ourselves & heirs into
financial
| dependence oblivion for that cheap (yeah, sure) !@#$%^&*()_+
Middle
| Eastern terrorist-tinged f'ing oil, so that the marketplace can
work
| its perverse magic
|

But there are other factors.
Toyota is also a financial company; you may not be aware that
they make a substantial percentage of their profit by trading
currency! They might be inclined to license their patents to
anyone if the price was right. And, at least within Japan, this
type of exchange has been part of inter-corporate relations for a
long time. And what about Honda?

Toyota also does not have a lock on hybrid technology; of course,
they've got their own implementations of it patented. But the
hybrid concept has been around for at least 70 years, and it's
been in use, too -- in parts here, parts there. And how many of
these patents are for design, not function? So, perhaps an
alternative hybrid set of designs might not be as efficient as
Toyota's, but it might be a nice efficiency boost nonetheless.

I agree with you that the Japanese manufacturers won't want to
help out a cheap-labor competitor, unless there was a big payoff
for them. And don't forget that China's right around the corner,
ready to undercut the Koreans. Even the Koreans are having some
of their manufacturing labor "offshored" to China.

Now, why have the American car makers behaved for years and years
as if their boards-of-directors were dominated by Texas oil men?

Richard

 

Richard: "Now, why have the American car makers behaved for years and
years
as if their boards-of-directors were dominated by Texas oil men? "


Me: Well, I am gonna inflict further wackoish speculations and folkish
lore financial theory(ies) upon ye; so best prepare yerselves for more
doom 'n gloom cynicism and pessimism, because this i perceive as true,
and I should hereaby apologize for the (appropriate) vulgarities:



Robert Cohen Sep 5 2003, 5:59 pm show options

Newsgroups: alt.philosophy
From: (Robert Cohen) - Find messages by this
author
Date: 06 Sep 2003 00:59:14 GMT
Local: Fri, Sep 5 2003 5:59 pm
Subject: Catch 22: The Petro-Dollar Paradigm
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
| Report Abuse

Reality is comic-tragic-absurd.


Subject: Krugman Column About China
From: (Robert Cohen)
Date: 9/5/03 8:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20030905203829.19971.00000688­@mb-m28.aol.com>


Paul Krugman of the NYTIMES is a political-economist.


Today's column states that the (mainland) Chinese--if pissede at the
U.S. for
applying yuan re-evaluation pressure, or for whatever political
economic
reason--could conceivably stop buying U.S. treasury securities.


Krugman claims this could conceivably result in an American Fed
interest rate
increase of TWO percentage points.


The Chinese could just buy Euro denominated securities, says Professor
Krugman.


In other words: "fucke the U.S."


I believe him.


My further observation-conjecture-paranoi­a:


The reason (imho) there is a prevailing petro-dollar paradigm--why our
cars
don't run on steam or sun or anything (generally-massively) but the
usual
conventional petroleum--is that our political economic oil dependency
is in a
catch 22.


The Saudis would/could conceivably find it necessary for revenge to
withdraw
their investments in U.S. government and in U.S. institutional bonds
and
securities.


The Saudis could conceivably buy Euro denominated securities, and thus
unsubtlely say, "fucke the U.S."


The changeover time from petroleum demand to something else (steam,
hydrogen,
hybrid) would be so chaotic that the U.S. would discombobulate..


Such is seemingly actually why nothing of massive substance has been
done since
1973 about foreign oil dependency.


The alternative energy stuff has been so much bullshite propaganda and
tokenism
because of the catch 22.


Jimmy Carter may have cried to himself when he realized such sitting in
his
sweater at the White House fireplace.


He got morose on tv, as ye oldsters will recall.


The hydrogen fuel cell thing is apparently pie-in-the-sky malarkey
added to a
recent Bush speech to pacify critics.


Because the international financial system is delicately inter-dynamic
and
inter-dependent.


Nothing truly technologically revolutionary-radical can be done without
such
dire consequences.


Walter Mondale couildn't tell ya this, though it is what I perceive as
ominous
reality.


Krugman's column about inter-dependence of China & U.S. is at via:


http://www.nytimes.com


free registration for marketing cookie is prequisite

 

What's an hybrid car? Take this fine SUV, or get the h outa GM's
showroom

copyrighted by the los angeles times 2005

www.latimes.com

GM to Stop Los Angeles Times Advertising



LOS ANGELES (AP) - General Motors Corp. says it will stop advertising
in the Los Angeles Times, at least temporarily, because of dealer
concerns over ``factual errors and misrepresentations'' in the
newspaper's articles and editorials.

The newspaper, which is owned by Tribune Co., will review coverage that
prompted the complaints from the world's largest automaker, said Times
spokesman David Garcia.

GM spokesman Brian Akre would not identify which stories or editorials
the company objected to, but said it had been a series of reports over
the past several months. ``We made our objections known to the Times
and we prefer to keep those private,'' he said Friday by telephone from
Detroit.

He said the decision was made this week because of ``strongly voiced
objections from our dealers in Southern California regarding factual
errors and misrepresentations in the Times editorial coverage.''


``We recognize and support the news media's freedom to report and
editorialize as they see fit,'' Akre said. ``Likewise, GM and its
retailers are free to spend our advertising dollars where we see fit.''



The ban covers corporate advertising, not individual dealer ads in the
classified section, he said. The company did not say the cancellation
was permanent.


``There are ongoing discussions, which is all we can say,'' Akre said.
``This is an extremely rare occurrence.''


Garcia said in Friday's editions that the newspaper ``will look into
any complaints GM has about inaccuracy or misrepresentation and will
make any appropriate corrections.''


On Wednesday, the paper published a column by auto critic Dan Neil that
called GM, which has struggled recently with sluggish sales, ``a morass
of a business case'' and called for the ``impeachment'' of two
executives. Among other criticisms, Neil said GM ``utterly missed the
boat on hybrid gas-electric technology'' while speeding up production
of SUVs.


Neil won the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for criticism, cited by the judges for
``one-of-a-kind'' reviews of automobiles blending technical expertise
with ``offbeat humor and astute cultural observations.''


When asked about columns by Neil, Akre said, ``It was not any one
column or story.''


Neither GM nor the newspaper, which has a daily circulation of 900,000,
would say how much the automaker spends on its Times ads.


There are eight GM lines doing business in Southern California:
Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Cadillac, Saab, Hummer, Saturn and Buick.


Akre said he didn't know how many dealers had complained.


Tribune shares fell 65 cents to close at $38.87 in Friday trading on
the New York Stock Exchange, near their 52-week low of $38.51.





© Copyright The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information
contained In this news report may not be published, broadcast or
otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The
Associated Press.


04/08/2005 16:50
APO

 

My 4 cyl auto trans Santa Fe gets better gas mileage & has plenty of
room for humans as well as freezers, trees, and other large items I'd
have to pay delivery charges for.

Hyundai had a news article on Accent going by by to a MC or something
like that which is their hybrid for 2005. But where is it? Still a
small car, not the Tucson as I was told by Hyundai USA last year that
is fleet service hybrid only.