2002 Sonata - Hubcaps piercing Tire Valves

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Abbaticchio
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Michael Abbaticchio

This is a rather strange problem. Recently brought car to Sears for 4 new
tires. About one week, later found drivers side front flat, leaking out of
valve stem. Installed donut and brought car back to Sears for a tire
remount. A few days later, same thing on same tire.

After the second time I noticed that the Hub Cap was putting quite a bit of
pressure on the valve stem, after re-installing the hub cap and driving a
few miles. Seems that the hub caps are turning on the rims, and piercing
the tire valve stems. I removed the hubcap from that wheel.

After incurring one more pierced stem on a different wheel, I removed all
the hub caps from the car.

Anyone ever heard of this ???????? Not sure whether I should bring the car
to the dealer for this, as it seems to be a huge safety issue if it is
happening to others who have changed tires. Perhaps the wheel weights were
different from the factory????? . Any opinions on this?
 
Michael said:
This is a rather strange problem. Recently brought car to Sears for 4 new
tires. About one week, later found drivers side front flat, leaking out of
valve stem. Installed donut and brought car back to Sears for a tire
remount. A few days later, same thing on same tire.

After the second time I noticed that the Hub Cap was putting quite a bit of
pressure on the valve stem, after re-installing the hub cap and driving a
few miles. Seems that the hub caps are turning on the rims, and piercing
the tire valve stems. I removed the hubcap from that wheel.

After incurring one more pierced stem on a different wheel, I removed all
the hub caps from the car.

Anyone ever heard of this ???????? Not sure whether I should bring the car
to the dealer for this, as it seems to be a huge safety issue if it is
happening to others who have changed tires. Perhaps the wheel weights were
different from the factory????? . Any opinions on this?
Click to expand...

I haven't heard of reports of this elsewhere. Could it be that the
mechanic at Sears damage the hubcap attachment mechanisms? I can't see
how else they could rotate on the wheels.

Also, it could be that they're just mounted wrong. In many cases, there
is only one cutout in the hubcap that will work properly with the valve.
If you look a the back side of the hubcap, there should be a section of
the retaining hoop with a jog in it to clear the valve. That must be
installed over the valve. If the cutout is not properly positioned
relative to the jog in the hoop, the hoop can be slid around until it
aligns correctly.

If either of these is the problem, Sears should cover the cost of the
repairs.
 
The hub cap is being positioned with the valve stem aligned within the
cutout valve. The problem is the hub cap shifting position, an applying
pressure on the valve stem, while the car is moving..

I doubt they are being installed incorrectly. I replaced the front brake
pads on the car last year and had no problem.

Something changed with the new tires. I suspect that maybe the old wheel
balancing weights might have been a different shape and prevented the hub
caps from shifting position.

I was just curious if the problem was wide spread.

--

regards,
Michael Abbaticchio
MVP for Exchange Server
http://exchange.mvps.org
 
Did some additional research to find several others with this problem. The
problem is actually caused by the edge of the hubcap making slight contact
with the bulge at the bottom of the tire. As the tire spins, the bulge
moves and drags the hubcap in the direction of the wheel rotation. Seems
that there are some slight variations from brand to brand in tire width.
Anyway you look at this I think that the manufacturer should have assumed
people will change tire brands and made the hubcaps more forgiving or at
least used the type that screws into the wheel studs. This is a potential
safety issue. After calling Hyundai Consumer Affairs and receiving no
sympathy, I filed a complaint with the DOT... http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/
against Hyundai, and intend to do the same against B.F. Goodrich. I hope
that this will at least get the problem looked at, as I suspect without a
neutral party, this thing will escalate into a blame game, which I do not
care to be the center of. If the model tire Sears installed has a known
issue than perhaps Sears is at fault, but I can't seem to find any
advisories against Goodrich tires on a 2002 Sonata. Hyundai has admintted
awareness of one other case but faulted the tire, but than stated that it is
OK to switch brand for replacement tires. At this point I am mostly
interested in preventing other Sonata owners from getting injured or killed.
 
Michael said:
Did some additional research to find several others with this problem. The
problem is actually caused by the edge of the hubcap making slight contact
with the bulge at the bottom of the tire. As the tire spins, the bulge
moves and drags the hubcap in the direction of the wheel rotation. Seems
that there are some slight variations from brand to brand in tire width.
Click to expand...

Interesting. That certainly makes sense.
Anyway you look at this I think that the manufacturer should have assumed
people will change tire brands and made the hubcaps more forgiving or at
least used the type that screws into the wheel studs.
Click to expand...

Have you been able to determine if this is a problem with all Sonata
hubcaps or just the style used on your model year and trim level?
Perhaps you could even get your dealer or Hyundai to cover the cost of
different hubcaps.

Are the hubcaps metal or plastic? If they're the former, Perhaps they
could be carefully reshaped to increase clearance. If the latter,
perhaps a small amount of material could be removed the the area that's
contacting the tires.
This is a potential safety issue.
Click to expand...

I agree. It should be made known to other Sonata owners.
After calling Hyundai Consumer Affairs and receiving no
sympathy, I filed a complaint with the DOT... http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/
against Hyundai, and intend to do the same against B.F. Goodrich. I hope
that this will at least get the problem looked at, as I suspect without a
neutral party, this thing will escalate into a blame game, which I do not
care to be the center of.
Click to expand...

This seems like the wrong approach to me and probably one that will lead
nowhere. You can't blame either manufacturer for the fact that specific
models of their products (car and tire) are incompatible due to the use
of a third product (hubcap). The car works fine with its OEM tires,
which is all that Hyundai is legally responsible for. They should do
more in order to keep customers happy, but that's an option, not a legal
requirement. Frankly, I'm surprised that they're not being more
accommodating, as I had a very good experience dealing with them in the
past on a far more expensive issue.
If the model tire Sears installed has a known
issue than perhaps Sears is at fault, but I can't seem to find any
advisories against Goodrich tires on a 2002 Sonata. Hyundai has admintted
awareness of one other case but faulted the tire, but than stated that it is
OK to switch brand for replacement tires. At this point I am mostly
interested in preventing other Sonata owners from getting injured or killed.
Click to expand...

Have you checked your tire pressure? Increasing it will reduce bulging
and may solve the problem. I don't know what the recommended factory
pressure is for a Sonata, but their recommendation for the Elantra is
way too low, particularly for the front tires. They recommend 30psi all
around, which is ridiculous in a FWD car where the front tires carry
most of the weight. I run mine at 36 front/32 rear and the difference in
handling is dramatic. Since the problem is occurring with only the front
tires (correct?), increasing the pressure may well solve it, in addition
to making your car handle better.

A simple solution that will definitely work is to change to alloy
wheels, but of course, that's costly. You could also purchase
aftermarket hubcaps.

Personally, I would not let Hyundai off the hook. While it's unlikely
that they would pay for any damaged tires, you should be able to press
them to replace the hubcaps with ones that don't have this problem.
 
Brian Nystrom said:
Michael Abbaticchio wrote:

Have you been able to determine if this is a problem with all Sonata
hubcaps or just the style used on your model year and trim level? Perhaps
you could even get your dealer or Hyundai to cover the cost of different
hubcaps.
Click to expand...

Looks like the style used in previous models pre-2002, may have screwed into
the wheel studs. Not positive on this yet, but they are defintiely visually
different.
Are the hubcaps metal or plastic? If they're the former, Perhaps they
could be carefully reshaped to increase clearance. If the latter, perhaps
a small amount of material could be removed the the area that's contacting
the tires.
Click to expand...

The hubcaps are plastic, but the rention mechanism is made of metal. The
design of the hubcap causes the hubcap edges to be psotioned beyond the rim
edges, and hence make contact with the tires. They should put a smooth
metal collar or pice of vinyl or rubber around the jagged plastiv edge that
may potentially contact the tire valve stem.
I agree. It should be made known to other Sonata owners.
Click to expand...

That is what this is all about at this point. I would hate to read about a
recall after someone gets hurt or worse.
This seems like the wrong approach to me and probably one that will lead
nowhere. You can't blame either manufacturer for the fact that specific
models of their products (car and tire) are incompatible due to the use of
a third product (hubcap). The car works fine with its OEM tires, which is
all that Hyundai is legally responsible for. They should do more in order
to keep customers happy, but that's an option, not a legal requirement.
Frankly, I'm surprised that they're not being more accommodating, as I had
a very good experience dealing with them in the past on a far more
expensive issue.
Click to expand...

I hope you are wrong here. If the car requires a certain brand of tires, it
should state that on the sticker inside the door panel. All it specifies is
205/60/R15 which is what Sears sold me. Hyundai consumer affairs was
downright defensive rather than accomodating. Maintained that it is my
problem since the tire brand was changed.

Have you checked your tire pressure? Increasing it will reduce bulging and
may solve the problem. I don't know what the recommended factory pressure
is for a Sonata, but their recommendation for the Elantra is way too low,
particularly for the front tires. They recommend 30psi all around, which
is ridiculous in a FWD car where the front tires carry most of the weight.
I run mine at 36 front/32 rear and the difference in handling is dramatic.
Since the problem is occurring with only the front tires (correct?),
increasing the pressure may well solve it, in addition to making your car
handle better.
Click to expand...

I think my tires are inflated 32PSI. The thing with tire pressure is it
varies with temperature. My front wheels get really hot on that car, and I
would imagine the pressure getting close to 36psi when the tires are hot.
If you are at 36psi cold, you might want to rethink that strategy.
A simple solution that will definitely work is to change to alloy wheels,
but of course, that's costly. You could also purchase aftermarket hubcaps.
Click to expand...

I probably eventually will spring for alooy rims. However, just solving the
problem for myself does not seem right, as there may be lots of others who
are not computer savy who have run into this problem and just shrugged it
off, and there is always the possibilitity of an accident caused by this.

Personally, I would not let Hyundai off the hook. While it's unlikely that
they would pay for any damaged tires, you should be able to press them to
replace the hubcaps with ones that don't have this problem.
Click to expand...

A set of better designed hubcaps would make me a happy. A design change and
a consumer notice, would make me even more happy. I intend to run with this
as far as I can. Hyundai must understand that they are not going to shut me
up by throwing free stuff my way. They have to come clean, assuming they
want my future business. Maybe they don't :)
 
Michael said:
Looks like the style used in previous models pre-2002, may have screwed into
the wheel studs. Not positive on this yet, but they are defintiely visually
different.
Click to expand...

That sounds like an avenue that's worth investigating.
The hubcaps are plastic, but the rention mechanism is made of metal. The
design of the hubcap causes the hubcap edges to be psotioned beyond the rim
edges, and hence make contact with the tires.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they could simply be reduced in diameter a bit. It should be
pretty simple to do.
They should put a smooth
metal collar or pice of vinyl or rubber around the jagged plastiv edge that
may potentially contact the tire valve stem.
Click to expand...

That would be nothing but a Band-Aid and wouldn't solve the underlying
problem. It makes much more sense to simply switch to different hubcaps
that don't suffer from this problem.
That is what this is all about at this point. I would hate to read about a
recall after someone gets hurt or worse.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt that there will ever be a recall, as the issue is not
present on cars with OEM tires. Recalls are for factory defects and
there is nothing defective here. There's a difference between a defect
and an incompatibility with aftermarket parts.
I hope you are wrong here. If the car requires a certain brand of tires, it
should state that on the sticker inside the door panel. All it specifies is
205/60/R15 which is what Sears sold me. Hyundai consumer affairs was
downright defensive rather than accomodating. Maintained that it is my
problem since the tire brand was changed.
Click to expand...

There is no way a manufacturer can be required - or expected - to test a
vehicle with every brand and model of tire in a given size. That's
simply unreasonable. How do you know that the tires aren't designed
outside industry standard specifications for a 205/60-R15 size? Perhaps
you should be chasing the tire manufacturer instead of Hyundai? See what
I'm getting at?
I think my tires are inflated 32PSI. The thing with tire pressure is it
varies with temperature. My front wheels get really hot on that car, and I
would imagine the pressure getting close to 36psi when the tires are hot.
If you are at 36psi cold, you might want to rethink that strategy.
Click to expand...

It's not a problem. The tires are rated at 44 PSI max and were inflated
to 48 PSI (shipping pressure) when I received the car. I'm sure yours
are rated in that same range.
I probably eventually will spring for alooy rims. However, just solving the
problem for myself does not seem right, as there may be lots of others who
are not computer savy who have run into this problem and just shrugged it
off, and there is always the possibilitity of an accident caused by this.

A set of better designed hubcaps would make me a happy. A design change and
a consumer notice, would make me even more happy. I intend to run with this
as far as I can. Hyundai must understand that they are not going to shut me
up by throwing free stuff my way. They have to come clean, assuming they
want my future business. Maybe they don't :)
Click to expand...

Good luck.
 
That would be nothing but a Band-Aid and wouldn't solve the underlying
problem. It makes much more sense to simply switch to different hubcaps
that don't suffer from this problem.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Only problem is... Who will test the new hubcaps on the highway ;)
I seriously doubt that there will ever be a recall, as the issue is not
present on cars with OEM tires. Recalls are for factory defects and there
is nothing defective here. There's a difference between a defect and an
incompatibility with aftermarket parts.
Click to expand...

Point is really, if someone just reads this thread here and it helps them
determine they should stick with the same brand tires, I have acomplished
something. I really thing wheels and brakes are two things that should not
be taken lightly by any party even remotely involved.
There is no way a manufacturer can be required - or expected - to test a
vehicle with every brand and model of tire in a given size. That's simply
unreasonable. How do you know that the tires aren't designed outside
industry standard specifications for a 205/60-R15 size? Perhaps you should
be chasing the tire manufacturer instead of Hyundai? See what I'm getting
at?
Click to expand...

Actually BF-Goodrich called me the next day after I sent an email asking
about the situation. They seem very interested in getting to the bottom of
thie issue. They have formally sent me a letter to bring to Sears,
requesting Sears inspect the car, tires and hubcaps and report back to them
the findings. I think that is a step in the right direction. They seemed a
lot more concerned than Hyunda was.
It's not a problem. The tires are rated at 44 PSI max and were inflated to
48 PSI (shipping pressure) when I received the car. I'm sure yours are
rated in that same range.
Click to expand...
Yes mine are rated at 44PSI Max. So you are saying inflating them byind the
max allowable pressure is OK? The door sticker on my car states 32 PSI, and
that was what Sears inflated them to. You probably are getting better gas
milage at higher pressures, but you really think the car handles better? My
experience with overinflated tires in the past has been uneven wear, harsher
ride, and hyper sensitive steering and pulling to the grade of the road.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Yea Thanks.... If I made any significant progress in the near future I will
post here to let the world, or at least the usenet world know.
 
Michael said:
Point is really, if someone just reads this thread here and it helps them
determine they should stick with the same brand tires, I have acomplished
something.
Agreed.

I really thing wheels and brakes are two things that should not
be taken lightly by any party even remotely involved.
Click to expand...
I don't think that anyone is taking anything lightly, there are just
limits to what can be expected. As I said before, I wouldn't give up on
Hyundai and would push them for new hubcaps that don't have the problem.
Actually BF-Goodrich called me the next day after I sent an email asking
about the situation. They seem very interested in getting to the bottom of
thie issue. They have formally sent me a letter to bring to Sears,
requesting Sears inspect the car, tires and hubcaps and report back to them
the findings. I think that is a step in the right direction. They seemed a
lot more concerned than Hyunda was.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised, given all the lawsuits we've seen recently regarding
tires.
Yes mine are rated at 44PSI Max. So you are saying inflating them byind the
max allowable pressure is OK?
Click to expand...

No, there's no need to go that high, and I don't recommend it. It is
safe. but it will probably result in the center of the tread wearing out
prematurely.
The door sticker on my car states 32 PSI, and
that was what Sears inflated them to. You probably are getting better gas
milage at higher pressures, but you really think the car handles better?
Click to expand...

Absolutely! One of the reasons that manufacturers specify equal
front/rear pressures is to make sure that the car understeers strongly
under all driving conditions and provides a pillowy ride, which they
consider to be safer and more desirable for "Joe Average Driver".
They're not concerned with the fact that equal pressures result in
uneven wear on the front tires (the edges wear out faster). If you read
tire manufacturer's web sites, they explain that tire pressures should
ideally be set based on the weight the tires support and the amount of
sidewall deflection. In a FWD car where the front tires bear ~60% of the
car's weight, they should be inflated to higher pressures than the rears.
My experience with overinflated tires in the past has been uneven wear, harsher
ride, and hyper sensitive steering and pulling to the grade of the road.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about "overinflating" anything. Hyundai provides a
"recommended" tire pressure, based on criteria of their choosing. That
doesn't mean that is the optimum pressure for best handling or even
tread wear.

Tire pressure is a simple thing to test, so why not see for yourself?
Try bumping your front tires up to 36 PSI and see what effect it has on
handling and the hubcap problem. It won't do any harm and you may find
it quite illuminating. If you don't like the results, you can always
drop the pressure back.
 
Thanks for the info. This is all news to me.. I will try bumping up the
front a little and see how the car handles, but the those hubcaps are off
for good. The problem wasn't specific to any tire. The rear tires have the
same problem, but to a lesser degree. The front tires are the ones that
kept going flat, but the stem on one of the rears did get a nick from the
hubcap pressure. Even if the tire pressure solved the problem, I wouldn't
want to risk losing a little pressure and the hubcap creating a rapid
deflation as a result.

Maybe I will spring for some alloys, if I decide to keep the car for the
long haul.

--

regards,
Michael Abbaticchio
MVP for Exchange Server
http://exchange.mvps.org
 
Overinflating steel belted tires is a proven disaster waiting to
happen. The pressure could cause the tire to explode, with the steel
belts actually ripping the tires to shreds. The bad part of this is
that it usually happens at highway speeds after the tires have heated
up. Please never overinflate the tires beyond what is stamped on the
tires as the max PSI.

J.W.
 
Michael said:
Thanks for the info. This is all news to me.. I will try bumping up the
front a little and see how the car handles, but the those hubcaps are off
for good. The problem wasn't specific to any tire. The rear tires have the
same problem, but to a lesser degree. The front tires are the ones that
kept going flat, but the stem on one of the rears did get a nick from the
hubcap pressure. Even if the tire pressure solved the problem, I wouldn't
want to risk losing a little pressure and the hubcap creating a rapid
deflation as a result.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a sensible approach.
 
Jon said:
Overinflating steel belted tires is a proven disaster waiting to
happen. The pressure could cause the tire to explode, with the steel
belts actually ripping the tires to shreds. The bad part of this is
that it usually happens at highway speeds after the tires have heated
up. Please never overinflate the tires beyond what is stamped on the
tires as the max PSI.
Click to expand...

First off, I NEVER advocated overinflating tires. My recommendations are
well below the maximum pressure that the tires are rated for.

Secondly, tires are tested to pressures well in excess of their posted
pressure rating, so the scenario you portrayed is highly unlikely. It
would take severe overinflation to cause it. Tires are routinely
overinflated to prevent wheel damage when the car is strapped down for
shipping and it's quite likely that many are driven that way initially
(my EGT had 48 psi in the tires when I picked it up). If overinflation
was a serious problem, there would be a lot of failures.

Third, there are FAR more tire failures from underinflation than from
overinflation. Low pressure causes more tire deflection, which causes
more internal friction until the tire fails due to excessive heat
buildup. I've witnessed this on tractor trailers where one tire has gone
flat and begins to smoke, then ultimately disintegrates. Underinflation
was the cause of the huge Ford/Firestone problem years ago.

Forth, your tires will never gain pressure, other than a small increase
when they warm up (typically 2-4 psi). However, pressure loss is quite
common and is a much more serious problem. A substantial percentage of
accidents are the result of people never checking their tire pressure
and not catching underinflated tires, which ultimately cause control
problems and/or blowouts.

Check your tire pressure, people!
 
When I said oveinflated, I meant beyond what is stamped on the door jamb
label. Not what is stamped on the tire. That would be plain stupid.

--

regards,
Michael Abbaticchio
MVP for Exchange Server
http://exchange.mvps.org
 
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