2004 Santa Fe power steering pump

[JayR]

I just spent almost $1,500 and had the timing belt, tensioner, pulley, and
two belts replaced on my 2004 Santa Fe 3.5 L V6 at a Hyundai dealership --
plus other service that was done at the same time that was included in the
$1,500 (transmission service, cooling system flush, oil change, throttle
body cleaning, etc.). I had to go back a few days later due to a noisy
rattling sound in the engine compartment, and they said it needs a new power
steering pump. They said the cost to install a new pump and pressure hose
is about $800 to $900. They said that part of why the cost is so high is
the cost of the parts. They also said that when replacing the pump the
pressure hose always gets replaced at the same time. The vehicle has 77,000
miles on it and I am the second owner, so it is not covered under any
warranty.

Unfortunately, I didn't know beforehand that the whole job, plus the $900
power steering pump and hose was going to end up costing $2,300 to $2,400.
If I knew that up front, I would have just traded it in and bought a newer
Santa Fe -- maybe a 2009 or 2010 still under warranty. But now I have to
decide about getting the power steering pump and hose replaced.

How hard is it to access and replace the power steering pump and hose on
this vehicle? Is there some much more reasonably priced way to get this
done? -- such as buy the parts and do it myself, or have it done elsewhere
not at a dealership?

 

[hyundaitech]

I just spent almost $1,500 and had the timing belt, tensioner, pulley, and
two belts replaced on my 2004 Santa Fe 3.5 L V6 at a Hyundai dealership --  
plus other service that was done at the same time that was included in the
$1,500 (transmission service, cooling system flush, oil change, throttle
body cleaning, etc.).  I had to go back a few days later due to a noisy
rattling sound in the engine compartment, and they said it needs a new power
steering pump.  They said the cost to install a new pump and pressure hose
is about $800 to $900.  They said that part of why the cost is so high is
the cost of the parts.  They also said that when replacing the pump the
pressure hose always gets replaced at the same time.  The vehicle has 77,000
miles on it and I am the second owner, so it is not covered under any
warranty.

Unfortunately, I didn't know beforehand that the whole job, plus the $900
power steering pump and hose was going to end up costing $2,300 to $2,400..
If I knew that up front, I would have just traded it in and bought a newer
Santa Fe -- maybe a 2009 or 2010 still under warranty.  But now I have to
decide about getting the power steering pump and hose replaced.

How hard is it to access and replace the power steering pump and hose on
this vehicle?  Is there some much more reasonably priced way to get this
done? -- such as buy the parts and do it myself, or have it done elsewhere
not at a dealership?

1. Before moving straight to replacing the pump, I'm curious to know
whether the fluid reservoir was checked for contamination. It's not
uncommon for the mechanic to remove the reservoir or separate portions
of the pressure line to allow for more room to access the timing belt
area. In a few cases, this has resulted in the debris throughout the
fluid to drain through the screen and clog enough of it to not allow
proper fluid flow. In most cases, this results in a humming or
whining noise on cold starts that tends to reduce or go away as the
vehicle is driven. Hyundai even has a technical service bulletin (08-
ST-001) instructing technicians to inspect the reservoir in the event
of whining noise.

2. It is not necessary to replace the pressure line when replacing
the pump, but the line fails with a much higher frequency than the
pump. There isn't enough labor overlap between these to jobs to
justify recommending doing them together if the line is otherwise in
good condition.

3. There are cheaper (and remanufactured) pumps available at places
other than the dealer. But the pump and line attachments are hard
enough to access that you're likely to have great difficulty replacing
it yourself.

 

[JayR]

1. Before moving straight to replacing the pump, I'm curious to know
whether the fluid reservoir was checked for contamination. It's not
uncommon for the mechanic to remove the reservoir or separate portions
of the pressure line to allow for more room to access the timing belt
area. In a few cases, this has resulted in the debris throughout the
fluid to drain through the screen and clog enough of it to not allow
proper fluid flow. In most cases, this results in a humming or
whining noise on cold starts that tends to reduce or go away as the
vehicle is driven. Hyundai even has a technical service bulletin (08-
ST-001) instructing technicians to inspect the reservoir in the event
of whining noise.

2. It is not necessary to replace the pressure line when replacing
the pump, but the line fails with a much higher frequency than the
pump. There isn't enough labor overlap between these to jobs to
justify recommending doing them together if the line is otherwise in
good condition.

3. There are cheaper (and remanufactured) pumps available at places
other than the dealer. But the pump and line attachments are hard
enough to access that you're likely to have great difficulty replacing
it yourself.

Thanks.

I'm not sure about the contamination possibility, but there is definitely no
whining noise or humming. The noise is a rattling and metal clunking type
of sound, and the sound is there all the time -- not just when it is cold --
and it is no different whether I am turning the steering wheel or not. I
thought they must have left some kind of metal housing loose or something
like that when they put things back together. But they said they are sure
it is the power steering pump that is making the noise -- I asked them a
couple of times about that. I did just look in the top of the power
steering fluid reservoir and I didn't notice anything unusual, but I don't
think I would be able to see anything there anyway in terms of contamination
etc.

I am glad you pointed out that the pressure hose a pump are mostly two
separate repairs with little labor overlap. That makes me a little more
uncomfortable with what they were telling me because I specifically asked
them if the pressure hose needs to be replaced or if that is just something
that is done when the pump is replaced. They said that both are done
together when the pump is being replaced. At this point, I have already had
enough future prevention type of work done on the vehicle, so if the
pressure hose replacement is a future prevention job I don't want to go
ahead with that.

Someone suggested that it may be a good idea to have it looked at elsewhere
and just say that there is a loud rattling noise without mentioning that it
may be the power steering pump. Then see what the new place thinks is
causing the noise. I may try that.

I can't quite picture how the power steering pump could be making this type
of rattling clunking metal type of noise. But, one thing they said was that
in the worst case scenario, the shaft of the pump could come loose and fall
out which would cause the power steering to stop working. So I said to them
that I guess that means that the shaft itself may be loose and maybe as it
turns it is causing the rattling/clunking sound.

I am also going to try calling another dealership and just asking what it
would cost to have the power steering pump replaced.

 

[Irwell]

I can't quite picture how the power steering pump could be making this type
of rattling clunking metal type of noise. But, one thing they said was that
in the worst case scenario, the shaft of the pump could come loose and fall
out which would cause the power steering to stop working.

The car would still be driveable, just very much harder to
steer, like we used to have to do in the old days.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

?

The car would still be driveable, just very much harder to
steer, like we used to have to do in the old days.

Don't count on the drivability. It will be much harder as cars are designed
to have power assist these days and without it, steering is far worse than
the manual of years gone by. Many would be just plain unsafe for normal
use.

 

[Voyager]

The car would still be driveable, just very much harder to
steer, like we used to have to do in the old days.

It is actually much worse than in the old days. The gearing of a manual
steering gearbox was much lower than today's power assisted steering. A
power steering car without the assist is probably 3-4X harder to steer
than is a car designed with manual steering.

Matt

 

[Irwell]

?


Don't count on the drivability. It will be much harder as cars are designed
to have power assist these days and without it, steering is far worse than
the manual of years gone by. Many would be just plain unsafe for normal
use.

I can, had to do it once with a 1962 Monterey, the power
steering pump failed, could still manage to make it home,BTW I repaired
that particular pump, took it apart and just had put in a new
'O' ring, it ran like new again.

Agree driving without the power assist would be harder, but safe
enough to get you home.

 

[Eric G.]

It is actually much worse than in the old days. The gearing of a
manual steering gearbox was much lower than today's power assisted
steering. A power steering car without the assist is probably 3-4X
harder to steer than is a car designed with manual steering.

Matt

This is very true. We had the PS pump fail on our Entourage. It was
completely unsafe to drive. I couldn't even turn the wheel enough to get
out of the garage safely. It might have been better at a high speed, but
still nothing like the old days.

Eric

 

[JayR]

?


Don't count on the drivability. It will be much harder as cars are
designed to have power assist these days and without it, steering is
far worse than the manual of years gone by. Many would be just
plain unsafe for normal use.

I agree that it probably would be almost undriveable. But, if it failed
while driving, I am guessing that I would be able to it off to the side of
the road.

My plan is to figure out exactly what is causing the noise -- most likely
the power steering pump -- and then get it fixed. So far, it doesn't look
like it is something that I could easily replace on my own.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

?

I can, had to do it once with a 1962 Monterey, the power
steering pump failed, could still manage to make it home,BTW I repaired
that particular pump, took it apart and just had put in a new
'O' ring, it ran like new again.

Agree driving without the power assist would be harder, but safe
enough to get you home.

Go to a big parking lot, put car in neutral, kill the engine. Then get back
to us with how far you'd drive it to get home. The '62 Monterey steering
design is long gone.

 

[Irwell]

?


Go to a big parking lot, put car in neutral, kill the engine. Then get back
to us with how far you'd drive it to get home. The '62 Monterey steering
design is long gone.

The above does not make much sense, what are you trying to say?

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

?

The above does not make much sense, what are you trying to say?

Your experience with a '62 Monterey does not apply to 2000 and newer cars.
They are very difficult to steer when the power goes out. Most would be OK
to get to the side of the road, but not safe to drive home more than a mile
or so, if that.

 

[Irwell]

?


Your experience with a '62 Monterey does not apply to 2000 and newer cars.
They are very difficult to steer when the power goes out. Most would be OK
to get to the side of the road, but not safe to drive home more than a mile
or so, if that.

I would agree with that summation, a lot depends too on the size
of the vehicle. This search on Google indicates that Power Steering pump
failures are fairly common, some drivers have just ripped the belt off
and have driven for months and even years without PS assist.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&t...tart=20&sa=N&bav=on.1,or.&fp=5e2b21bd614e0a97

 

[JayR]

I'm not sure about the contamination possibility, but there is
definitely no whining noise or humming. The noise is a rattling and
metal clunking type of sound, and the sound is there all the time --
not just when it is cold -- and it is no different whether I am
turning the steering wheel or not. I thought they must have left
some kind of metal housing loose or something like that when they put
things back together. But they said they are sure it is the power
steering pump that is making the noise -- I asked them a couple of
times about that.

This is a follow-up question.

I just figured out how to access the shop manuals etc. online through
http://hmaservice.com .

When I looked up the power steering oil pump, this is what it says in the
troublehshooting section regarding "Noise" (hopefully, I can get the text to
format correctly here):

----- Quoted text from manual starts here -----

Noise:

1) Hissing Noise in Steering Gear:

There is some noise with all power steering systems. One of the most common
is a hissing sound when the steering wheel is turned and the car is not
moving. This noise will be most evident when turning the wheel while the
brakes are being applied. There is no relationship between this noise and
steering performance. Do not replace the valve unless the "hissing" noise
becomes extreme. A replaced valve will also make a slight noise, andis not
always a solution for the condition.

2) Rattling or chucking noise in the rack and pinion:

Interference with hoses from vehicle body
Loose gear box bracket
Loose tie rod end and/or ball joint
Worn tie rod and/or ball joint

3) Noise in the oil pump:

Low fluid level -- Replenish
Air in the fluid -- Bleed air
Loose pump mounting bolts -- Retighten

4) A slight "grinding noise" may be heard immediately after the engine is
started in extremely cold weather conditions (below-20°C). This is due to
power steering fluid characteristics in extreme cold conditionsand is not an
indication of a malfunction.

----- Quoted text from manual ends here -----

The noise I have is clearly not 1, 2, or 4 from the list above.

Although # 3 above doesn't say what type of noise, that's the only one left;
and, of those, the only one that seems likely or possible is "Loose pump
mounting bolts". I assume that they would have seen that and fixed if if
that was the problem.

What I don't see anywhere is anything else in the Troubleshooting section
for the power steering oil pump that describes the kind of noise I am
hearing. It just seems strange that after all of the work I had done, this
fairly loud noise suddently develops, and they say it's the power steering
pump -- but nothing like that (other than the mounting bolts) is described
in the Hyundai troubleshooting section in the shop manual.

Maybe, I'll try getting under the vehicle and looking to see what I can see,
or getting someone to put it up on a lift and see if there is any way to
really tell what is making the noise and why.

I don't know if I dly

 

[JayR]

Maybe, I'll try getting under the vehicle and looking to see what I
can see, or getting someone to put it up on a lift and see if there
is any way to really tell what is making the noise and why.

Here's just a little more followup. I looked underneath the vehicle and it
is clearly too hard to get to for me to try to replace it on my own. It is
also now leaking power steering fluid. I checked at another dealership and
their price for replacing just the pump is about $540, which is a lot less
than the $800-$900 price I was given for doing the pump and the pressure
hose. They said it is about a 3 hour job to replace the pump. So, I'll
probably just get it done.

 

[hyundaitech]

Here's just a little more followup. I looked underneath the vehicle and it
is clearly too hard to get to for me to try to replace it on my own.  It is
also now leaking power steering fluid.  I checked at another dealershipand
their price for replacing just the pump is about $540, which is a lot less
than the $800-$900 price I was given for doing the pump and the pressure
hose. They said it is about a 3 hour job to replace the pump.  So, I'll
probably just get it done.

This power steering pump is actually in close proximity to the unibody
frame rail. If the shaft breaks internally, it may slide out and
actually bang into the frame rail, causing a noise similar to what you
describe. Just a guess, though.

You've also managed to find the least useful section of the repair
manual. While better than they were several years ago, the diagnostic
information in the manual will often lead you down the wrong path. I
cannot tell you how many computers I would have needlessly replaced
had I always followed the diagnostic charts. With experience, I found
it was much more accurate to develop my own diagnostic procedures
based on the operating principles of the device in question.

 

[JayR]

This power steering pump is actually in close proximity to the unibody
frame rail. If the shaft breaks internally, it may slide out and
actually bang into the frame rail, causing a noise similar to what you
describe. Just a guess, though.

You've also managed to find the least useful section of the repair
manual. While better than they were several years ago, the diagnostic
information in the manual will often lead you down the wrong path. I
cannot tell you how many computers I would have needlessly replaced
had I always followed the diagnostic charts. With experience, I found
it was much more accurate to develop my own diagnostic procedures
based on the operating principles of the device in question.

Thanks again hyundaitech. The information you provide is always excellent.

I called a third Hyundai dealership this morning and they said they have the
parts in stock and that they could replace the power steering pump today for
$410 (which includes the 6% state sales tax). So I took it there and they
did the work. All I said was that it needed a power steering pump, and I
explained the background and the noise that it was making etc. About 2 1/2
hours later they said it was done. The noise is completely gone and
everything is running fine. Although when I called I asked about a price to
replace the pressure hose (which was $330 including the sales tax), I didn't
say anything about replacing the hose when I brought it in. I'm sure that
if they saw that it needed a pressure hose they would have said something
when they were replacing the pump.

 

[Ed Pawlowski]

I called a third Hyundai dealership this morning and they said they have
the parts in stock and that they could replace the power steering pump
today for $410 (which includes the 6% state sales tax). So I took it
there and they did the work.

A rebuilt pump would be half that plus labor, a fair price. If it is a new
pump, it is a very good price. Glad your problem is solved.