Advice needed NOW, they made me an offer until tommorrow.

[Robin]

Ok went for my first test drive today for Sonata VS and XG350L. Sonata
was ok, didn't knock me out for some reason, so was slightly
disappointed). Then I drive 20 ft in the XG350L and I KNEW!!!!!!!!! I
didn't want the test drive to end, just loved, loved, loved it!!

Next, I had explained to the salesman that I'm a month away from making
a purchase, my current lease doesn't expire til then, that I would like
him to be the one who sells it to me, but if he does, he's not going to
make much, that I will put him thru the paces, that I always have 10-15
dealers, with a phone call or fax outbidding each other from all over
the place etc. and that's how I've always gotten what I've considered to
be very good deals.

His response to that was that this dealership will probably go along
with a few hundred over invoice because they're a volume dealer (also
have Misubishi, and a couple of other makes - don't understand how that
helps them as volume dealer for Hyundai so this might be a little BSing
on his part), and it helps them just to turn the car over.

When we got back from XG test drive, the sales manager called us over,
asked how I liked it. I told him I've selected the car I want, will
start process in one month,e xplained about lease. He said, what if I
take care of that last payment for you. I said one way or the other,
I'll still be paying for it. He said, no, that he has an advertising
account that he can charge it to which he occassionally does for people
who have only payment left, he wouldn't do it for more than one payment.
More, he said he'd sell the car to me for $25 over invoice, but have to
buy this weekend.

I asked my salesman later that I would want to see the invoice, he said
I would see it, that it's a certified copy of invoice, whatever that
means. Is it possible for them to alter it or not be a true
representation of their cost in any way?? I know I can check on Edmunds,
don't have time this moment, will do later.


My salesman said he's never heard him make this offer to anyone (BS,
right?, but he sounded so sincere that that, probably they're working
together because of my enthusiasm over the car, which I was very open
about on the test drive, saying this is it, this is my car.

Salesman and Mgr both told me I would be paying at least $300-400 over
invoice at any fleet/online source, that they HAVE to sell it for at
least that. Manager said he knew I'd be using all dealers bidding
against ea other, wanted to save time/hassle for him and me.

What complicates things is that it's not really going to be better for
me than $400 over invoice since I just paid my second to last payment of
$400, so that would be wasted, and there goes that savings.

Next, my maintenance light is on (on my Honda Accord) it needs the next
tune up or whatever happens at the mileage its at and I haven't done it
yet. Thought I had a little time. If I turned the car in tommorrow, how
would this work between Hyuundai dealer and Honda who they'd be turning
it back into?


Next, - issue of rebate or 0% financing. My credit is excellent, I
would be putting down pymt perhaps $5000-$8000. The sales man said that
on a four yr loan, the interest wouldn't be as much as $2000 so better
to get the rebate. Since I don't believe a word that comes out of the
mouths of a car salesman, don't know what to believe. The sales mgr
said he can show me on paper which would be better, but I would look to
your advice over his paper.

Perhaps I should just wait one more month, and hope he'll make me
similar deal next month for whatever the reasons he has for needing to
make such an offer. My salesman couldn't believe the offer, saying that
the mgr made him loose a deal yesterday when his customer offered $400
over invoice, he showed me the worksheet he had been using. He said he
thinks mgr may have some pressure to sell cars because of advertising
expense on the weekends, wants to show cars are moving.

So guys - what do you think?
P.S. (I'm also 187 miles away from the 45,000 mileage limit on my Honda,
no big deal really, I guess, and not a deal breaker. It just would give
me tremendous satisfaction to turn the car in before speedometer turns
to 45,000.

 

[Jason]

Ok went for my first test drive today for Sonata VS and XG350L. Sonata
was ok, didn't knock me out for some reason, so was slightly
disappointed). Then I drive 20 ft in the XG350L and I KNEW!!!!!!!!! I
didn't want the test drive to end, just loved, loved, loved it!!

Next, I had explained to the salesman that I'm a month away from making
a purchase, my current lease doesn't expire til then, that I would like
him to be the one who sells it to me, but if he does, he's not going to
make much, that I will put him thru the paces, that I always have 10-15
dealers, with a phone call or fax outbidding each other from all over
the place etc. and that's how I've always gotten what I've considered to
be very good deals.

His response to that was that this dealership will probably go along
with a few hundred over invoice because they're a volume dealer (also
have Misubishi, and a couple of other makes - don't understand how that
helps them as volume dealer for Hyundai so this might be a little BSing
on his part), and it helps them just to turn the car over.

When we got back from XG test drive, the sales manager called us over,
asked how I liked it. I told him I've selected the car I want, will
start process in one month,e xplained about lease. He said, what if I
take care of that last payment for you. I said one way or the other,
I'll still be paying for it. He said, no, that he has an advertising
account that he can charge it to which he occassionally does for people
who have only payment left, he wouldn't do it for more than one payment.
More, he said he'd sell the car to me for $25 over invoice, but have to
buy this weekend.

I asked my salesman later that I would want to see the invoice, he said
I would see it, that it's a certified copy of invoice, whatever that
means. Is it possible for them to alter it or not be a true
representation of their cost in any way?? I know I can check on Edmunds,
don't have time this moment, will do later.


My salesman said he's never heard him make this offer to anyone (BS,
right?, but he sounded so sincere that that, probably they're working
together because of my enthusiasm over the car, which I was very open
about on the test drive, saying this is it, this is my car.

Salesman and Mgr both told me I would be paying at least $300-400 over
invoice at any fleet/online source, that they HAVE to sell it for at
least that. Manager said he knew I'd be using all dealers bidding
against ea other, wanted to save time/hassle for him and me.

What complicates things is that it's not really going to be better for
me than $400 over invoice since I just paid my second to last payment of
$400, so that would be wasted, and there goes that savings.

Next, my maintenance light is on (on my Honda Accord) it needs the next
tune up or whatever happens at the mileage its at and I haven't done it
yet. Thought I had a little time. If I turned the car in tommorrow, how
would this work between Hyuundai dealer and Honda who they'd be turning
it back into?


Next, - issue of rebate or 0% financing. My credit is excellent, I
would be putting down pymt perhaps $5000-$8000. The sales man said that
on a four yr loan, the interest wouldn't be as much as $2000 so better
to get the rebate. Since I don't believe a word that comes out of the
mouths of a car salesman, don't know what to believe. The sales mgr
said he can show me on paper which would be better, but I would look to
your advice over his paper.

Perhaps I should just wait one more month, and hope he'll make me
similar deal next month for whatever the reasons he has for needing to
make such an offer. My salesman couldn't believe the offer, saying that
the mgr made him loose a deal yesterday when his customer offered $400
over invoice, he showed me the worksheet he had been using. He said he
thinks mgr may have some pressure to sell cars because of advertising
expense on the weekends, wants to show cars are moving.

So guys - what do you think?
P.S. (I'm also 187 miles away from the 45,000 mileage limit on my Honda,
no big deal really, I guess, and not a deal breaker. It just would give
me tremendous satisfaction to turn the car in before speedometer turns
to 45,000.

Rough interest calculations (within 2%, depending on how your bank
calculates interest):

i = interest rate
a = loan amount
t = loan term

interest paid = ((a * i^t) - a) / 2

Here's an example based on the loan I took for my 2003 Sonata LX:
i = 1.0374 (3.74%)
a = $12,000
t = 5 years
interest paid = ((12000 * 1.0374^5) - 12000) / 2 = $1209.12

I'd say that if the guy is willing to pay your last lease payment and
still give you the car within $100 of the invoice price, go for it.

 

[Cathy De Viney]

So how much was the sales price of the XG350L, after rebate? Any extras
like floor mats, mud guards, or CD changer? What was the loan interest rate
offered?

Did you check www.kbb.com and www.edmunds.com?

 

[wamaruna]

Well, Robin, you've not given us all the info we'd need to do your math for
you. We don't even know your country, or the interest if any you could earn
on the $2,000 if it reduced your payments or down-payment, etc.

The other great unknown in deciding between buying now or a month or two
from now is, what will happen to the current $2K rebate after month-end?
Granted, it was on for at least the last two months (when I started tracking
it), but here in the U.S. spring will be upon us, the time when a young
man's fancy turns to cars, and the dealers know it.

I bought my XG350L last weekend. I live in eastern NC in the US, where
there are not a lot of Hyundai dealers to compete against each other, and
none of the folks in my half of the state participate in Edmund's buying
service or Cars Direct. Still I was able to use Edmund's TMV and the
CarsDirect target price to negotiate a price of $22,300 after rebate. This
is on the L-series without CD changer, but with carpet mats and rear
mudguards. But there was also a $200 'documentation fee' which I knew about
going in, so depending on how you view that, you can add that to the $22,300
if you like. Everyone around here seems to play the doc-fee game, ranging
from $99 to $250. So make sure you know all the fees before agreeing on
what you think will be the price. I'm sure these doc-fees are pure dealer
profit games. But since all the dealers were getting at least $100, I
figured the other $100 was on top of the $22.3K, which put me at $22,400,
which was about the CarsDirect $22,435 price for the equivalent car.

As far as 0% financing or $2K rebate, what interest rate are they quoting?
If your credit is as good as you say, on-line Capitol One was quoting 3.9%
car rates last time I checked. Let's assume you carry a $17,000 principal
amount. On a 48 month loan at 5%, you'll pay $1,792 interest over the four
years. Pretty scary, eh? At a 4% rate, you're shelling out $1,492 over the
term. And at 6%, it's $2,164. You need to decide that one. But consider
that by putting the $2K down as a rebate applied to the purchase price,
you've reduced your interest over the 4 years at 5% by $211 right off the
bat. If it was me, I'd take the rebate and find my own best rate.

Find out what their best price is, and compare it to mine and what others
may be willing to post. Your area may be different from mine, where there
is not much other Hyundai competition, and with the smaller town, the dealer
probably has to make a bit more per sale to survive. Then decide whether
the dealer is taking the last payment on your Accord out of your pocket or
his. I was coming off a lease, and they suggested the same thing to me.
But I had already made my last payment, and was counting down the last 10
days of the lease.

I'd be curious to know your age. I read where the target age for XG buyers
is 55, kind of like Buick and Lincoln and Caddy buyers. I fit that profile.
My wife and I also drove the Sonata. We drove both the Sonata and the XG
four times, and had a hard time deciding, considering the $4K spread in the
price, though there is an equipment difference besides. This will be my
wife's car, and we really loved the looks of the Sonata, inside and out, but
we were coming off a Toyota Avalon, and the XG is a much closer ride and
'feel' to the Avalon than the Sonata, plus my wife and I are about 8 inches
different in height, so the memory seats in the XG350L were a big plus, as
we enjoyed them in the Avalon as well. My wife is petitie, so the Sonata
would have fit her fine, but for me it was just a mite too tight. The
Avalon XLS was a terrific car, and we leased two in a row, and never had a
problem to speak of. The ride was wonderful and the seats very comfy, but I
could not ignore the $8K difference in price to the XG I don't expect the
XG to measure up in all regards to the Avalon, but if it comes close, we'll
be happy. I also think the trunk restyle from '03 to '04 was a big plus,
but others' tastes may vary.

 

[Robin]

Well, Robin, you've not given us all the info we'd need to do your math for
you. We don't even know your country, or the interest if any you could earn
on the $2,000 if it reduced your payments or down-payment, etc.

I'm in southern California. Re interest, I haven't checked in a couple
of weeks but the best interest rate then was about 3.9% at Capitol One.
Hyundai's lowest interest rate, if you don't choose their 0%, is
5.-something, so that's not an option. Much better rates out there.

The other great unknown in deciding between buying now or a month or two
from now is, what will happen to the current $2K rebate after month-end?

Very good point. Also, I have a potential rear brake problem that could
surface within the next 30 days ($200-$250 to fix).

I bought my XG350L last weekend. I live in eastern NC in the US, where
there are not a lot of Hyundai dealers to compete against each other, and
none of the folks in my half of the state participate in Edmund's buying
service or Cars Direct. Still I was able to use Edmund's TMV and the
CarsDirect target price to negotiate a price of $22,300 after rebate. This
is on the L-series without CD changer, but with carpet mats and rear
mudguards.

When I went in to the dealership today, it was only to test drive the
Sonata and XG to give me the month to decide which one I wanted. I did
not go in armed and ready with TMV info. The offer from the sales mgr
took me by surprise, I was just on my way out. I'm convinced the
salesman hightailed it into the sales manager when we got back from the
test drive to tell him my comments about how much I loved the car. I'm
sure what happened today is the oldest trick in the book, to confuse the
customer with something they didn't see coming.

As far as 0% financing or $2K rebate, what interest rate are they quoting?

Answered above. When I responded to their 5.something %, they said they
had other options, but we didn't go into it since I wanted to hurry home
to post to this newsgroup.

If your credit is as good as you say, on-line Capitol One was quoting 3.9%
car rates last time I checked. Let's assume you carry a $17,000 principal
amount. On a 48 month loan at 5%, you'll pay $1,792 interest over the four
years. Pretty scary, eh? At a 4% rate, you're shelling out $1,492 over the
term. And at 6%, it's $2,164. You need to decide that one. But consider
that by putting the $2K down as a rebate applied to the purchase price,
you've reduced your interest over the 4 years at 5% by $211 right off the
bat. If it was me, I'd take the rebate and find my own best rate.

That does seem to be the answer. I would arrange for my own financing
on Monday. Before I leave the lot with the car, I believe they want me
financed thru their people, and then once I get my own - to switch. Is
there a reason I shouldn't do that? If my credit checks out at
dealership, isn't there another option other than taking their
financing, even if only for a few days?

Find out what their best price is, and compare it to mine and what others
may be willing to post. Your area may be different from mine, where there
is not much other Hyundai competition,

I'm in southern Orange County which is half way between L.A. and San
Diego, and I would be willing to go in either direction or any point in
between for the right deal if its significantly better than a closer
dealership or Cars Direct.
Then decide whether

the dealer is taking the last payment on your Accord out of your pocket or
his.

How do I determine that? If I see the invoice and he's charging me $25
above it, doesn't that answer that question? Or are there other ways he
has of taking it from my pocket (document fees perhaps, as you suggested
earlier, kits or trims that show up on the car? An invoice that's been
inflated or not a true representation of what they paid for it?).


I was coming off a lease, and they suggested the same thing to me.

But I had already made my last payment, and was counting down the last 10
days of the lease.

See that's a tough one, because I don't think it would be difficult to
get $300-$400 over invoice given the number of Hyundai dealers in my
area. This Tuesday, the second to my last lease payment, $322, is
being deducted from my checking account which would be lost, and needs
to be deducted from what I would be saving to accept his deal. He said
he'd pay ONE carpymt, that was really an issue for him, but he never
asked if my car payment was $100 or $600. Maybe that could be a point
of negotiation, meet him half way on the payment I'm making this week or
some other goody he could throw in to make me feel better about this. I
don't NEED to get the car now, the maturity date on my lease is 4/28.
So, the advantage to accepting the deal now, if you agree with me, is to
protect myself about this potential rear brake problem that could
surface before I turn the car in, and potential for rebate to decrease.
Do you agree? Am I forgetting/not thinking about something?

I'd be curious to know your age. I read where the target age for XG buyers
is 55, kind of like Buick and Lincoln and Caddy buyers. I fit that profile.

I'm 52 so I guess I do too, but would not be attracted to
Buick/Lincoln/Caddy. Those are old people cars. I would be drawn
toward Infinity/Lexus or Accord EXLV6 or Nissan Altima V6.


plus my wife and I are about 8 inches

different in height, so the memory seats in the XG350L were a big plus, as
we enjoyed them in the Avalon as well. My wife is petitie, so the Sonata
would have fit her fine,

I was concerned the XG's size would overwhelm me since I'm only 5', but
it doens't feel any larger than my Honda Accord, while the Sonata felt
smaller than the Accord although everyone I ask says Sonata and Accord
same size, XG larger.

A question about "invoice" price - are the rebates and other incentives
that a dealer gets reflected on the invoice for the car, or is that
hidden, with the invoice not being a true reflection of what the dealer
paid for it? If that's the case, is it possible to negotiate car below
invoice?

Another way I'm anticipating I can be bamboozled are "kits" or "trims"
that happen to be on the car, which I'll need to pay for because that's
the way the dealer was sent the car. Any way to protect myself from
that?
Robin

 

[Robin]

So how much was the sales price of the XG350L, after rebate?

I didn't even look. My goal today was to decide Sonata or XG. Never
anticipated a serious negotiation to occur.


Any extras

like floor mats, mud guards, or CD changer?

They have several XG's to choose from. My understanding is that the
XG350L has 8 CD changer. I saw the matts in the trunk of the car I test
drove.

What was the loan interest rate

offered?

0% or $2000 rebate. If I take the rebate, they mentioned a 5.-something
% interest rate, but said they might be able to do better. I can get my
own financing if that's what it comes to, ie. Capitol One, 3.9.

Did you check www.kbb.com and www.edmunds.com?

For interest rates or TMV? Not in the last couple of weeks but yes, I
have.
Robin

 

[Robin]

Rough interest calculations (within 2%, depending on how your bank
calculates interest):

i = interest rate
a = loan amount
t = loan term

interest paid = ((a * i^t) - a) / 2

Here's an example based on the loan I took for my 2003 Sonata LX:
i = 1.0374 (3.74%)
a = $12,000
t = 5 years
interest paid = ((12000 * 1.0374^5) - 12000) / 2 = $1209.12

I'd say that if the guy is willing to pay your last lease payment and
still give you the car within $100 of the invoice price, go for it.

Even though I'm just now making my second to the last car payment of
$322?

 

[wamaruna]

Robin, it sounds like you and I have similar tastes. I too would not have
considered Buick/Caddy/Lincoln. On the other hand, we test drove the Accord
EX twice (very quick car, XM radio, but way too much road noise intrusion
for my taste) and the Altima (again, too much noise, this time road and
engine - also, I'd need to check again if the V6 required premium fuel.)

Were it not for the fact that you have this potential brake problem and are
about to go over on your mileage, I would say you should wait. I too went
looking a couple months early, and made it very clear that I was not going
to buy for two months. I was not the one who was under any pressure to buy
a car. It's the dealer who is under pressure to sell you a car. Why let
them transfer their pressure to you? And as for the salesman's comment that
he was surprised that his manager was letting you have this kind of offer,
all I can say is...did you see "Fargo"? Wm. H. Macy's character pretty much
said those same words. I'd classify that under Car Saleman Talk 101.

On the other hand, when does the rebate end? No one knows. It could go on
for months, or it could change next month. Are you willing to take that
risk, and walk away to another car if it happens? I was, two months ago. I
was not locked onto the XG, so that uncertainty was not an issue. If they
took it away, it just made for one more elimination on my list of cars.

And what will going over on your mileage cost you? That sounds like almost
a certainty, and needs to be weighed against the payment you'd be losing.
Maybe you're not going to be out $322, but only half that after considering
your mile overage. And how sure are you about the brake job?

You definitely have some considerations that don't make this a clean-cut
decision. In the end, remember to ignore all pressure tactics. Buy on your
timetable, but take into consideration all the factors. Good luck.

 

[K. Collier]

Get the "drive out" price in writing. This will include all fees, taxes,
etc. Don't decide until they give you that.
And take the rebate if you do decide to buy given that it is 2K.
Good luck!