Corolla v Civic v Hyundai/Nissan moeds

[Josh S]

Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
you're not. Not necessarily.

IMO they've similar in interior space.
A few months ago we drove to the airport in a Corolla and returned in a
Prius. The Prius did have the advantage of being able to pile our
luggage up to the back window, so you couldn't see out the window even
the tiny bit that is normal.

I would never pile the luggage that high for safety reasons and would
wrap a cargo net around the Prius luggage to avoid it coming forward in
a quick stop.

I have read that the Prius mileage in cold winter weather is similar to
the Corolla's.

 

[Josh S]

J.D. Power Long Term Dependability (3 year)
--------------
Only Toyota and Honda rank above the industry average

Longevity (11-20 years) (of companies making small, non-luxury cars)
---------
Saturn
Toyota
Honda
Mazda

Depreciation
------------
Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Mazda 3
Nissan Versa

If you keep a new car 10 yrs, as I usually do, depreciation is almost
the same for most similar priced cars.
Very little value after 10+ yrs.

 

[observer]

: Well, you may be thinking that it's "too expensive to buy". It may or
: may not be too expensive to operate.
:
: The up front cost is only one of the many costs. You buy it once, but
: you operate it over and over again. You must look at an overall cost,
: per mile, to come to any conclusions.
:
: I'd compare similarly equipped Corolla and Prius...

Just using round numbers, the price difference appears to be $6000.

If I drive 12000 miles per year, Corolla (30 mpg) would need 400
gallons of fuel. Prius (40mpg) about 300 gallons. Difference is 100
gallons, let's say $500.

That would mean 10-12 years to merely recover the extra money you pay
upfront. So, I am not saying Prius is not a good car, but it has become
something of a fad/fashion too and I don't see the economy: I give them
$6000, and hope that maybe I'd earn it back by 2020?

So, I am inclined to stay with the best of conventional cars. Trying to
figure out which one!

Ok, I'm biased since I own 3 Corollas (one tho is a 1992 but in great
shape). I won't get into which one is the best because of my bias
but how can you go wrong with any of your choices? Even if you did,
how bad could it be compared to your other choices? I say rather
than beat your brains out, buy the Corolla (is my bias showing yet?)
and enjoy it for 200,000 miles or more.

 

[Josh S]

My concern is still the batteries. The OP had his present car for 12 years
so I'm going to assume he wants long life from the next. Will the batteries
become a nightmare or just another expense? Just something to be factored
in for the total cost of driving over the years. I keep hearing about a
five year life, so that would be two changes for the OP if he keeps the car
that long.

Based on other rechargeable batteries I would expect a significant drop
off in capacity after 3 to 5 years.
Since the Prius will still run anyway I'm sure the batteries will be run
into the ground before replacement.

 

[Justbob30]

Oops that was a math error, so that drops your savings down to $4,000 in 10
years. Show me the data indicating battery packs fail in great numbers, at
least as much as transmission and engine problems as hybrid cars have been
on the road more than 10 years and some have over 300,000 miles on them.
The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
transmission, I would not even consider one. It would also have poor resale
value? though not a major factor, but, unless you are going to drive the car
into the ground, it has some bering.
If you are comparing a car with an automatic trans, yes, you need to add
the auto to the other....BTW. I did use the base Corolla for the comparison
but comparing a stripped econo-box to a fairly well equipped car is the same
logic people use when comparing the Honda hybrid to the Civic DX, sorry,
like it or not, the hybrid is on par with the EX not the DX so, though you
may be happy with a low end car, Hybrids are not and therefore the
difference it owed to more than the cost of the hybrid system but the Hybrid
may not be for you.

 

[Justbob30]

Got a lot of opinions Josh, how about facts, the Prius will NOT run on a
failed battery pack and cabbies have heavy feet, it is part of the
job.....however, don't you see the contradiction in your two statements that
the battery packs fail in three to five years yet they are usesd as high
mileage taxies....of course you don't see that, after all, you have been
told all of these things and after all drove a prius once admittedly
overloaded. Oh well, this is the internet, these are things you have heard
or read so of course they must be true fact.

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
you're not. Not necessarily.

IMO they've similar in interior space.[/QUOTE]

They're not.

 

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.

Hmmm,
Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing?[/QUOTE]

Is no different than the cost of the traditional automatic transmission
when it needs replacing.

And after 125K, a traditional auto trans will need replacing. It seems
to be normal nowadays.

 

[Newbie]

: The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
: transmission..

I was just pointing out that it is an option. If someone is comfortable
with manual transmission (as OP stated) and wants to save money while
still getting Corolla quality, he can.

I have owned manual and automatic Toyotas and never had problem selling
either kind.

 

[Zeppo]

: The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
: transmission..

I was just pointing out that it is an option. If someone is comfortable
with manual transmission (as OP stated) and wants to save money while
still getting Corolla quality, he can.

I have owned manual and automatic Toyotas and never had problem selling
either kind.

And as gas prices climb closer to $4/gal, small efficient manual
transmission vehicles will be more desirable. I expect to see a premium on
manual trans, small engine cars pretty soon in the US.

Jon

 

[Mike Marlow]

And as gas prices climb closer to $4/gal, small efficient manual
transmission vehicles will be more desirable. I expect to see a premium on
manual trans, small engine cars pretty soon in the US.

As CVT's gain ground, the benefits of a manual transmission (in terms of
fuel economy) fade. Most CVT's are either equaling or exceeding the mpg
rating of manuals. I'm not ready to trust CVT's yet, and prefer to see them
proven over time, but they do show promise.

 

[Elle]

TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a
comparison as you
make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions,
Prius is not.
A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better
mpg.

Most of the reason a manual Toyota Corolla still gets better
mpg than an automatic Toyota Corolla is that the manual has
a 5-speed tranny while the auto has a 4-speed one.

For other makes and models, and in the last five years or
so, changes in auto tranny design have resulted in it often
surpassing manual trannies when it comes to mpg, when
comparing the same models whose only difference is the
tranny.

 

[Justbob30]

CVT's have been in common production since 1989, Subaru Justy & Honda Civic
HCH how long do they need to be around before you can trust them?

 

[SMS]

Well, you may be thinking that it's "too expensive to buy". It may or
may not be too expensive to operate.

It's fine, as long as you sell it before the batteries need to be
replaced. Toyota is very clever with the Prius batteries in the way they
never discharge them very deeply, at least in the U.S. (in other
countries there is a button that allow greater electric range by
allowing the batteries to discharger more). This allows them to claim
that they last a very long time, when in fact they are losing efficiency
from day one. _They_ get to decide when the batteries are worn out. It's
similar to how automakers define "normal" oil consumption to avoid
having to repair oil-burning engines.

You're much better off with a Corolla than a Prius, unless you're
driving huge amounts of miles (then you're better off with one of the VW
TDI vehicles). I recently sold something on craigslist to someone that
drove up in a new TDI. Since they don't sell these in California, I
asked him how he got it, and he said that there's a dealer in Marin
county that brings in slightly used TDIs from Oregon (I think they need
7000 miles on them) then sells them as used cars. Very high mileage and
very good engines. VWs have good longevity, even if they have more
initial problems.

 

[SMS]

: Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site,
: base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference
: $2,715,

ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.

TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.

Also, the Prius isn't heavily discounted off of MSRP, while the Corolla
is. There was brief period, after California gave out the maximum number
of carpool lane stickers for hybrids, that Prius street prices fell a
lot, but now with the higher gas prices they're back up.

 

[SMS]

Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
you're not. Not necessarily.

It's a little larger, though it's misleading because the cargo capacity
is higher only if you pile things up so you can't see out the back! It's
still closer to the Corolla in size than the Camry.

Corolla

 

[SMS]

Based on other rechargeable batteries I would expect a significant drop
off in capacity after 3 to 5 years.
Since the Prius will still run anyway I'm sure the batteries will be run
into the ground before replacement.

This is true, but the way Toyota does battery discharging, the _usable_
capacity will be about the same. They don't take full advantage of the
battery, especially on the U.S. models (in other countries there's an
option to do deeper discharge). All they have to do to get ten years of
identical capacity is to slowly increase the discharge level to compensate.

 

[SMS]

Hmmm,
Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing?

Is no different than the cost of the traditional automatic transmission
when it needs replacing.

And after 125K, a traditional auto trans will need replacing. It seems
to be normal nowadays.[/QUOTE]

Maybe on some vehicles. I know a lot of high-mileage Corollas (>200K)
and it's certainly not normal to need a new transmission, at least no
one I know of with a high-mileage Corolla (or Camry, or Accord, or
Civic) has ever needed one.

Where did you get the idea that it was "normal?".

 

[SMS]

And as gas prices climb closer to $4/gal, small efficient manual
transmission vehicles will be more desirable. I expect to see a premium on
manual trans, small engine cars pretty soon in the US.

The newer automatics are so efficient that they often get higher mileage
than a manual transmission in the same car. No one that drive
extensively in heavy stop and go traffic is going to put up with a
manual transmission.

 

[frijoli]

Most of the reason a manual Toyota Corolla still gets better
mpg than an automatic Toyota Corolla is that the manual has
a 5-speed tranny while the auto has a 4-speed one.

I don't think so. Can you explain that?

Clay