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the_andrew_smith
Flagged your blog for you.
a.
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Guest
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Tom Adkins
I finally checked out this "Blog". I'm reading along about theory, descriptions of
various parts, etc. thinking, "Hmm, this really isn't bad. Looks like a good place to
refer a beginner".
That was until I came to the sections about charging the system and Retrofitting the
system. It then became obvious that this site is nothing more than an advertisement
for f***ing Interdynamics!! That's the major manufacturer of AC "Death Kits" sold in
chain parts stores like AutoZone.
There is no mention of checking\replacing the metering device, flushing, evacuation,
leak detection, etc. Just "Connect the handy hose on our product Here", sealers,
boosters and all! Your AC will work like new.
This kind of shoddy advertising and marketing just makes me ill. I make a ton of
money repairing the damage Interdynamics products do to systems in the hands of people
with no AC experience. The flashy advertising lulls them into believeing that they
only need to spend $30 to fix the problem that the "ripoff" AC shop said would cost
$300. They learn too late that the $30 fix is now going to cost $1000.
There are a number of "tightasses" out there who can afford to have the system fixed
properly, but will not. When their system fails as a result of using these products, I
feel a bit bad but will gladly take their money to fix it right. Hopefully they
learned a lesson.
It's the other segment of Interdynamics target customer that I truly feel bad for,
and feel the worst about being the bearer of bad news. The folks on a limited income
who can least afford to lose even $30 to these sham artists, much less an added $500+
to their repair bill. They try these junk fixes due to believing the flashy labelling,
professional looking website, and lack of proper instructions.
It's truly disgusting!!
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy making money. The larger the amount the better. But I
don't like to make money off the backs of people who have been screwed over by
predatory marketing like this.
M
Michael Pardee
Tom Adkins said:
That's what it looked like to me, too. Most of the writeup was okay (not as
good as http://www.autoacsystems.com/_faqs/detail/quick.html), but the
marketing part is no favor to anybody.
Mike
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Tom Adkins
Michael said:
You are correct, www.autoacsystems.com is a great site. The FAQ section is excellent
for DIYers that aren't familiar with servicing their AC system. Straight, correct
answers and no marketing. Myself, I'm partial to www.autoacforum.com. There's a great
bunch of guys there, many of them MVAC professionals, who are always willing to help a
DIYer fix their AC (the right way). The site sponsor, Arizona Mobile Air, is a great
supplier of MVAC parts and equipment at excellent prices and excellent quality. (I'm
not connected to AMA, just a happy customer).
I have a bit of a personal problem with Interdynamics, as well as my professional
side being offended by their shoddy products. I can't count the times that, when I
quote $400-600 for a proper R-134a retrofit, I hear "But I can buy the kit for $40,
and my buddy used it with no problem". Even though I know the answer, it's hard to
argue with what they may have seen someone else do. I've been called a crook too many
times. For every non-failure when using those kits (I refuse to call it a sucess) I
see 5 or more people who weren't as lucky.
It's the same with their "recharge kits" and other magic in a can products. The
customer says "Nah, I don't want to spend $200 to fix the leak and recharge the AC on
my 10 year old car. I'll just add some sealer and charge it myself for $20". They then
come back 2 weeks later with the compressor knocking, or grenaded, and and look at me
like I'm the bad guy when I tell them it's going to cost close to $1K to fix it right.
I charge $150 on top of all else if I detect sealer in an AC system. The refrigerant
is not recyclable(I have to pay to dispose of it) and I've had one machine damaged to
the tune of $1K by that garbage.
The bad part is, I do MVAC as a sideline to make a few extra bucks in the summer.(My
"real" job is a Network Administrator) I enjoy AC repair and also do electrical
repair, yeah I'm a masochist.
I don't have the overhead of most independent shopsand can do the work "cheap" in my garage. I can't even imagine what the "real" shops
go through with this crap.
M
Michael Pardee
Tom Adkins said:You are correct, www.autoacsystems.com is a great site. The FAQ section is
excellent for DIYers that aren't familiar with servicing their AC system.
Straight, correct answers and no marketing. Myself, I'm partial to
www.autoacforum.com. There's a great bunch of guys there, many of them
MVAC professionals, who are always willing to help a DIYer fix their AC
(the right way). The site sponsor, Arizona Mobile Air, is a great supplier
of MVAC parts and equipment at excellent prices and excellent quality.
(I'm not connected to AMA, just a happy customer).
I have a bit of a personal problem with Interdynamics, as well as my
professional side being offended by their shoddy products. I can't count
the times that, when I quote $400-600 for a proper R-134a retrofit, I hear
"But I can buy the kit for $40, and my buddy used it with no problem".
Even though I know the answer, it's hard to argue with what they may have
seen someone else do. I've been called a crook too many times. For every
non-failure when using those kits (I refuse to call it a sucess) I see 5
or more people who weren't as lucky.
It's the same with their "recharge kits" and other magic in a can
products. The customer says "Nah, I don't want to spend $200 to fix the
leak and recharge the AC on my 10 year old car. I'll just add some sealer
and charge it myself for $20". They then come back 2 weeks later with the
compressor knocking, or grenaded, and and look at me like I'm the bad guy
when I tell them it's going to cost close to $1K to fix it right. I charge
$150 on top of all else if I detect sealer in an AC system. The
refrigerant is not recyclable(I have to pay to dispose of it) and I've
had one machine damaged to the tune of $1K by that garbage.
The bad part is, I do MVAC as a sideline to make a few extra bucks in the
summer.(My "real" job is a Network Administrator) I enjoy AC repair and
also do electrical repair, yeah I'm a masochist.
overhead of most independent shops and can do the work "cheap" in my
garage. I can't even imagine what the "real" shops go through with this
crap.
I have a clue: outside of dealerships that have to do A/C, we have only one
shop left in our college town of 50K people that still does auto A/C. Some
of that is undoubtedly because of equipment costs to conform to modern
requirements, but I'm sure the hassles you describe are a factor.
I fancy I have a good feel for when I have a handle on a situation and when
it is walking all over me. I felt good about R12 and I felt lost when I
tried recharging R134a. Others may feel differently.
I understand your distinction between "non-failure" and "success." Just
because something works similar to the way it was designed to doesn't mean
it is working right.
Mike
M
Michael Pardee
Tom Adkins said:
Ah! Thanks for the link, Tom. A few of the topics explained my trouble with
trying to recharge "by ear" and thermostat/guage: the system response is
very slow. Much was made of the need to go slowly (we were adding about an
ounce per minute steadily and not allowing the system nearly enough time to
settle) and the ease of overcharging when doing this. Theoretically, the add
and check process will work with enough cooling of the condensor - the
article recommended a wind tunnel! Doing it by weight makes a lot more
sense.
Mike
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Tom Adkins
Mike,Michael said:
I'm glad it helped and you got the answers you needed. That's what that the
contributors there try for.
I missed the "wind tunnel" reference, but the cooler you can make the condenser, the
better the system will cycle added refrigerant (stabilize).
Charging "by ear" can work once you develop a "feel" for it. That's how I do it (I
always use a scale for accuracy and reference it to verify or tweak my "feel"). The
big problem in a public forum is how to describe to someone how you "feel" the system
is fully charged. It's like trying to describe "how tight is snug? or how much is
"just a little bit".
Yup, doing it "by weight" is the easiest, most accurate way.
Keep reading, there's lots of good "nitty gritty" information there.
While you're doing that, I'm going to re-familiarize myself with
www.autoacsystems.com. Last time I was there, the site was really new. They've added a
lot more content since then. Thanks for the reminder.
Tom
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Tom Adkins
Michael said:
You may be right. I can't say that I would shut down my "cottage business" due to
hassles caused by Interdynamics products, but they certainly add to the frustration.
The "real" AC repair shops likely deal with it as a part of doing business.
That one shop in your town that still does AC would likely be more affected by
customer perception (caused by ID products?) than by compliance issues. The
requirement to have a certain machine hurts initially, but usually pays for itself
quickly if the shop is busy. This is, of course, assuming that the shop specializes in
Heating/ Cooling repairs and is not a "general" shop that does MVAC too. Small local
"repair" shops really labor under the regulations for MVAC service. That's why many
don't do it these days.
I too have a good feel for when a situation is walking all over me. I can always
spot it starting "back there somewhere".
This is especially true in my personallife. I have 2 teen daughters that I adore, and 2 ex-wives that...well..., God grant
me the serenity...
F
Fred W
Tom Adkins wrote:
Pardon my barging in on a perfectly good AC repair thread, but...
You don't need serenity, Tom. You need to stop marrying women that you
can't get along with.
I'll let you in on a little secret: There are ways to get laid without
marrying the bitches. ;-)
Pardon my barging in on a perfectly good AC repair thread, but...
I too have a good feel for when a situation is walking all over me. I
can always spot it starting "back there somewhere".
especially true in my personal life. I have 2 teen daughters that I
adore, and 2 ex-wives that...well..., God grant me the serenity...
You don't need serenity, Tom. You need to stop marrying women that you
can't get along with.
I'll let you in on a little secret: There are ways to get laid without
marrying the bitches. ;-)
D
Dean Dark
As I once heard somewhere: Why get married? Just find a woman you
hate and buy her a house.
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Tom Adkins
Fred said:
Very true.
D
Dave in Lake Villa
Over the counter Freon recharge kits should be banned ; ill bet theres
been some lawsuits, but, evidentally, not enough. Us guys in the HVAC
trade have to be certified to handle refrigerants and most have us have
graduated from a 2-4 year Trade School. Yet consumers can buy and
dispense it into their cars a/c system without knowing anything about
the danger, how to determine correct charge, how to purge air from the
hoses, et al ??? Something is very very wrong here.
been some lawsuits, but, evidentally, not enough. Us guys in the HVAC
trade have to be certified to handle refrigerants and most have us have
graduated from a 2-4 year Trade School. Yet consumers can buy and
dispense it into their cars a/c system without knowing anything about
the danger, how to determine correct charge, how to purge air from the
hoses, et al ??? Something is very very wrong here.
M
Michael Pardee
Tom,
This was the entry about charging empirically (best with a wind tunnel):
http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=11887
What never even crossed my mind, using my R12 experience, was that the
condensor pressure behavior actually marks the full charge point. I imagine
you are able to cut some corners on the settling time because the condensor
pressure plateaus just before full charge is reached (ibid). An experienced
eye would catch that, but somebody with my level of experience wouldn't have
known what to look for.
Mike
This was the entry about charging empirically (best with a wind tunnel):
http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=20&threadid=11887
What never even crossed my mind, using my R12 experience, was that the
condensor pressure behavior actually marks the full charge point. I imagine
you are able to cut some corners on the settling time because the condensor
pressure plateaus just before full charge is reached (ibid). An experienced
eye would catch that, but somebody with my level of experience wouldn't have
known what to look for.
Mike