sludge

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ed & Jane Grant
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'It isn't the gunk that comes out that I care about, it is the gunk that
is loosened up and doesn't come out. I stand by my claim that these
treatments are not necessary, at best cause no harm, and at worst can
ruin your engine.'

REPLY: Have you actually seen the Bilstein Flush Machine in operation
by a trained person ? If not, then you should refrain from denouncing
it until you have seen it in operation and have some conclusive
emphirical evidence to accurately report on . Lastly, what is your
basis for assuming that the sludge doesnt come out ?
 
'DId you do it with the Bilstien ENgine Flush Machine which
pumps heated solvent thru the oil filter spindle, fills up the block oil
passages with the solvent letting it sit for 15 minutes , then
circulates fresh solvent thru at 45 psi while the old solvent comes out
of the Oil Pan and across filters in the Machine which are visible ? Ive
personally witnessed this being done on two of my high mileage vehicles
and i change oil with filter at 3 k. miles using synthetic oil and high
performance oil filter. Its worth it to do about every 40 k miles if its
done with this specific Machine.

Let me guess. After you do this, you get 10% better fuel mileage, your
engine has 20 more HP, it runs quieter, starts better and stops faster.
    Did I miss anything?
Matt '

REPLY: You should not be listened to Matt since you come to the table
with an unsupportable preconcieved bias in many instances ; you
denounce this particular Engine Flush procedure without even having
first hand knowledge or personal experience with it. At least go to
their website and come up to speed on the Machine, how it works, its
benefits, et al...instead of offering a conclusion based on personal
bias.
 
'Dave's been a good boy here. There have been others who have been out
of line with their comments and have dredged up their so-called trash
from other places.
I don't car about what anyone else says happens other places, not am I
going to go there just to look for dirt on Dave. He could be a great guy
or he could be the world's largest angle-side-side. As long as he's
respectful here (as he has been), I'll reply.'

REPLY: I appreciate your attitude and philosophy H.T. The main reason
why i have folks like 'Godless Heathen' stalk me in an attempt to
discredit me , is because I simply challenge their willful
godlessness/immorality/spread of degradation ... and they dont seem to
like that too much. They think i should be tolerant to their 'religion'
of suppressed moral conscience, which isnt going to happen. The main
reason America is in the moral mess its in , is because of complacency
toward the Immoral Hedonists. Youd be surprised where these Varmin pop
up in the NG's i visit. Its not that i hate them...its that i take a
stand against their cause ; the same that our Founding Fathers did when
this (once) great country was birthed.
 
I looked inside before and after. No noticeable change. Considering the
amount of sludge that was originally there and the amount that was still
there, I didn't see the point in doing it a second time.
 
I hope this isn't an attempt to prove me wrong, Dave. While I support
Christian morals, I also support tolerance of others up to the point where
they begin to tread on my individual rights.
 
Dave said:
'Dave apparently is the same poster who I recently noticed touting
incorrect advice about anti-freeze usage in alt.rv. (along with his OT
and unwanted Christian Fundamentalistic proselytizing) '

REPLY: Had you bothered to really investigate that running straight
distilled water makes an automotive engine cool better than a 50/50
coolant solution....you would have found i was in fact, correct.
Click to expand...

Yes, but coolant serves other purposes in addition to heat transfer.
And pure water isn't very good at corrosion protection, seal protection,
etc.


Matt
 
Dave said:
'It isn't the gunk that comes out that I care about, it is the gunk that
is loosened up and doesn't come out. I stand by my claim that these
treatments are not necessary, at best cause no harm, and at worst can
ruin your engine.'

REPLY: Have you actually seen the Bilstein Flush Machine in operation
by a trained person ? If not, then you should refrain from denouncing
it until you have seen it in operation and have some conclusive
emphirical evidence to accurately report on . Lastly, what is your
basis for assuming that the sludge doesnt come out ?
Click to expand...

I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through engineering
school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger for nearly
7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick in spots
and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer ports in
the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than power loss
from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours on it.

Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at
all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted.
Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no difference.

Do you own stock in this company?


Matt
 
Dave said:
'DId you do it with the Bilstien ENgine Flush Machine which
pumps heated solvent thru the oil filter spindle, fills up the block oil
passages with the solvent letting it sit for 15 minutes , then
circulates fresh solvent thru at 45 psi while the old solvent comes out
of the Oil Pan and across filters in the Machine which are visible ? Ive
personally witnessed this being done on two of my high mileage vehicles
and i change oil with filter at 3 k. miles using synthetic oil and high
performance oil filter. Its worth it to do about every 40 k miles if its
done with this specific Machine.

Let me guess. After you do this, you get 10% better fuel mileage, your
engine has 20 more HP, it runs quieter, starts better and stops faster.
Did I miss anything?
Matt '

REPLY: You should not be listened to Matt since you come to the table
with an unsupportable preconcieved bias in many instances ; you
denounce this particular Engine Flush procedure without even having
first hand knowledge or personal experience with it. At least go to
their website and come up to speed on the Machine, how it works, its
benefits, et al...instead of offering a conclusion based on personal
bias.
Click to expand...

I'll put my technical background against yours any day of the week.
What are your credentials? I have two BS degrees, am completing a
masters at present and am a licensed professional engineer in NY state
(and you can look that up on their web site if you don't believe me).
OK, your turn.

Matt
 
Dave said:
'DId you do it with the Bilstien ENgine Flush Machine which
pumps heated solvent thru the oil filter spindle, fills up the block oil
passages with the solvent letting it sit for 15 minutes , then
circulates fresh solvent thru at 45 psi while the old solvent comes out
of the Oil Pan and across filters in the Machine which are visible ? Ive
personally witnessed this being done on two of my high mileage vehicles
and i change oil with filter at 3 k. miles using synthetic oil and high
performance oil filter. Its worth it to do about every 40 k miles if its
done with this specific Machine.

Let me guess. After you do this, you get 10% better fuel mileage, your
engine has 20 more HP, it runs quieter, starts better and stops faster.
Did I miss anything?
Matt '

REPLY: You should not be listened to Matt since you come to the table
with an unsupportable preconcieved bias in many instances ; you
denounce this particular Engine Flush procedure without even having
first hand knowledge or personal experience with it. At least go to
their website and come up to speed on the Machine, how it works, its
benefits, et al...instead of offering a conclusion based on personal
bias.
Click to expand...

OK, I viewed the web site. I'm now even more convinced this is simply
another way to separate people from their money. The before and after
pictures are particularly telling. There is a lot of stuff remaining in
the after picture. For a real comparison, they should have also showed
a new oil pan and oil pickup (at least that is what I think was in the
picture). Then you could see how much stuff remains. Also, when an
engine is running, it slings oil everywhere. Ever see a high-speed
camera shot inside the crankcase of a running engine? I have and the
oil is flying everywhere. The flush system, from what is shows on the
web site graphic, is running fluid in and letting it drain back to the
crankcase and then suctioning it out. The suggests that most of the
engine is going to be cleaned as the oil only flows back through the oil
passages. It isn't covering the entire inside of the engine the way the
oil is when the engine is running.

In the end, all of this is irrelevant anyway as the sludge has virtually
no effect on the operation of the engine. Even the "data" they show,
was showing improvements that likely aren't even statistically
significant. 1-3% is in the noise level of most measurement techniques.
An engine on a dyno can experience a 1% change in torque from morning
to afternoon must from temperature and humidity changes. To claim that
a 1% difference was due to this flush is simply hogwash.

However, as has been often said "there's one born every minute" so these
folks will probably get lots of business with their scare tactics. I
wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this magic
machine?


Matt
 
'I hope this isn't an attempt to prove me wrong, Dave. While I support
Christian morals, I also support tolerance of others up to the point
where they begin to tread on my individual rights.'

REPLY: H.T. , Yes...I can agree with this too. However, I support
taking a stand against the very things which are sending this country
down the moral sewer also ; I think its encumbant upon all of us who
know right from wrong and who care about this Country to do so. I trust
you feel the same way as its ok to be intolerant toward things which
ruin an entire nation. Regards.
 
'Yes, but coolant serves other purposes in addition to heat transfer.
And pure water isn't very good at corrosion protection, seal protection,
etc.
Matt'

REPLY: True. Which is why i had also mentioned in the particular RV post
thread i made in that Forum , that a corrosion inhibitor was required in
conjunction with the 100% distilled water . This assumes NO A/C is on
the car also , as, with straight water, it is possible to freeze up the
heating coil (with stagnant water only in it) since it is downstream of
the A/C's evaporator. With A/C, at least a 25% coolant to 75% water is
advisable .
 
'I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through
engineering school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger
for nearly 7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick
in spots and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer
ports in the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than
power loss from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours
on it.
Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at
all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted.
Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no
difference.
Do you own stock in this company?
Matt '

REPLY: Glad to see you have had a good career Matt ; however, unless
you have first hand experience with this Bilstien Machine , have seen
the results, and the evidence , etc.... you should reserve any
disparaging comments regarding it. Your comments should be of an
inquisitive nature and not of an absolute disent nature . That is my
advice for you and i present it in all respect. As for it 'not
helping'... you dont know that either. In my particular case, i had it
done to a 1998 CHevy Cargo Van with 108,000 miles on it and it totally
cured a ticking valve lifter immediately after the Bilstien Flush.
Further, if the flush is done correctly / repeated in severe
circumstances....it will allow maximum flow of oil to reach critical
areas of the engine the same that Medical RotoDrilling does to a person
who has plaque in his arteries .
 
'I'll put my technical background against yours any day of the week.
What are your credentials? I have two BS degrees, am completing a
masters at present and am a licensed professional engineer in NY state
(and you can look that up on their web site if you don't believe me).
OK, your turn.
Matt'

REPLY: Matt, In the interest of civility in this NG, Im not even going
there. I have adoped a personal philosophy over the years and it goes
like this : If I (or someone else) has not had FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
with something/someone....then it is a wise person who reserves making
comment until such time that it is fully justifiable and appropriate
based on firm evidence. This has served me very well . I wish no
animosity between you and myself Matt. There is a plethera of knowledge
to be had in this NG and we should focus in on that instead . I hope
you will agree. And i humbly apologize if i offended you in anyway
concerning this thread. Dave.
 
'I wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this
magic machine?
Matt'

REPLY: The same way they did before Capacitive Discharge Ignition
Systems came along.
 
Dave said:
'Dave's been a good boy here. There have been others who have been out
of line with their comments and have dredged up their so-called trash
from other places.
I don't car about what anyone else says happens other places, not am I
going to go there just to look for dirt on Dave. He could be a great guy
or he could be the world's largest angle-side-side. As long as he's
respectful here (as he has been), I'll reply.'

REPLY: I appreciate your attitude and philosophy H.T. The main reason
why i have folks like 'Godless Heathen' stalk me in an attempt to
discredit me , is because I simply challenge their willful
godlessness/immorality/spread of degradation ... and they dont seem to
like that too much. They think i should be tolerant to their 'religion'
of suppressed moral conscience, which isnt going to happen. The main
reason America is in the moral mess its in , is because of complacency
toward the Immoral Hedonists. Youd be surprised where these Varmin pop
up in the NG's i visit. Its not that i hate them...its that i take a
stand against their cause ; the same that our Founding Fathers did when
this (once) great country was birthed.
Click to expand...

You've got a pretty warped perspective, Dave. All it takes is a brief
look around to see that some of the most immoral people on the planet
also claim to be very religious. Religion has been used to justify some
of the most heinously immoral acts in history. Religious belief is not a
prerequisite for morality, nor is it a guarantee of it. Conversely, lack
of religious belief does not portend immorality or hedonism. You sound
like just another typical intolerant religious zealot. You may believe
that you're part of the solution, but people like you are actually the
major source of the problem.

Who was it who said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
If you don't want other people's beliefs imposed on you, don't impose
yours upon them. Pretty simple, eh? If more people followed that
principle and adopted the "live and let live" credo, there'd be a lot
less strife in this world.

Can we go back to talking about cars now?
 
Matt said:
Yes, but coolant serves other purposes in addition to heat transfer. And
pure water isn't very good at corrosion protection, seal protection, etc.
Click to expand...

It also has a lower boiling point, a higher freezing point and therefore
doesn't protect against either as well as a 50:50 mix. Water is fine in
racing engines that get torn down after a few hundred miles, but it's
ridiculous to run it in a street engine.
 
hyundaitech said:
I looked inside before and after. No noticeable change. Considering the
amount of sludge that was originally there and the amount that was still
there, I didn't see the point in doing it a second time.
Click to expand...

Game, set and match to Hyundaitech! ;-)
 
Dave said:
'I've been an engineer for 23 years and I paid my way through
engineering school working as a diesel mechanic, truck driver and logger
for nearly 7 years. I've seen Detroit diesels with sludge an inch thick
in spots and carbon a half inch thick (nearly closed off the transfer
ports in the cylinders). This caused no ill affects at all other than
power loss from the carbon deposits. This engine had nearly 10,000 hours
on it.
Even if the machine removed every bit of sludge and caused no harm at
all, the point is that is also doesn't help any so it is money wasted.
Nobody can see inside your engine so having it spotless makes no
difference.
Do you own stock in this company?
Matt '

REPLY: Glad to see you have had a good career Matt ; however, unless
you have first hand experience with this Bilstien Machine , have seen
the results, and the evidence , etc.... you should reserve any
disparaging comments regarding it.
Click to expand...

Dave, you've said you are a Christian. So am I. Do you have first-hand
experience with alcohol? illegal drugs? prostitutes? homosexuality?
or any other things that you consider to be sinful?

If not, does that mean that you don't condemn such activities since you
lack personal experience with them?


Matt
 
Dave in Lake Villa said:
'I wonder how cars have operated so well for 100 years without this
magic machine?
Matt'

REPLY: The same way they did before Capacitive Discharge Ignition
Systems came along.
Click to expand...
What's that got to do with normal, production vehicles - Sonata, Elantra,
Taurus, etc?
 
'You've got a pretty warped perspective, Dave. All it takes is a brief
look around to see that some of the most immoral people on the planet
also claim to be very religious. Religion has been used to justify some
of the most heinously immoral acts in history.'

REPLY: I beg to differ with you on 'my warped perspective' . And...i
wish i had a nickel for everytime i hear this common anti-God rhetoric ;
heres the deal : Many things are done in the name of religion or God ,
but that doesnt mean that they ARE OF GOD . (And i have no doubt you
already knew this fact quite well). The Founders of this Nation
definitively agreed that it was the Christian God and the Christian
Bible and Godly Principles , morals, and ethics...that would best serve
AMerica for generations to come -- surely not secular humanism and the
ever changing cultural whims of today. A close look at secular humanism
reveals all the social ills and vices we have before us today ; the
biggest atrocity being over 1,000,000 developing human beings in the
'mothers' womb being brutally ripped out due to the desire to hide the
guilt, shame, and inconvenience of a fling gone wrong ; and countless
supporters of this who could care less.

'Religious belief is not a prerequisite for morality, nor is it a
guarantee of it. Conversely, lack of religious belief does not portend
immorality or hedonism.'

REPLY: Firm religious beliefs followed by action to obedience most
certainly should lead to a moral way of living if one sees him/herself
as a special creation of a personal Almighty Creator which affords
dignity and great value . Conversely, firm religious belief that one
is nothing more than a distant relative of a one celled pond protozoa
who accidentally found himself swimming in literal Pond Scum and
(impossibly) graduated to a 206 bone human being with a brain
informational capacity far surpassing any Computer 'created' by man so
he can do as he wishes without any ultimate accountability .... is the
perfect recipe for immoral hedonism and other forms of willful
suppression to ones moral conscience which accomodates his
self-serving/narcissitic agenda . Alduous Huxley , Evolutionist , said
it best :" I didnt reject the Creator based on a lack of
evidence...rather, it was due to my sexual mores" .

'You sound like just another typical intolerant religious zealot. '

REPLY: Please dont expect me to be tolerant to anti-god philosophies
which have brought irrepairable ruin to this country ; if George
Washington and the Boys were here today, they would have voted to cast
you out to Singapore for some serious desenitization to following the
decadent American culture of today.

'You may believe that you're part of the solution, but people like you
are actually the major source of the problem.'

REPLY: We are only 'a part of the problem' when it comes to being a fly
in your liberal agenda . The Countrys Founders are too, since they
vehemently spoke out against your form of religion.

'Who was it who said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto
you"? '

REPLY: His name is Jesus Christ , whom the Founding Fathers loved and
honored in addition to nearly all the Founders of the Sciences ,
countless Generals, Presidents, Scholars, Law Professors, and
'allegedly' 90% of current Americans according to a fairly recent George
Barna Poll (although you see most of them out on the golf course on a
Sunday morning or waking up with someone new, instead of in a corporate
worship environment giving rightful praise to God). By the way, Jesus
never espoused tolerance toward degradation and a decadent culture...in
fact, he exposed it and the Bible calls us to do the same. Did you know
Jesus literally threw out thieves and swindlers for desecrating a holy
place ?

'If you don't want other people's beliefs imposed on you, don't impose
yours upon them. Pretty simple, eh?'

REPLY: Sounds so nice and sweet ...however, its been this kind of
complacency and apathy toward the twisted view of 'tolerance' which has
sunk America into the moral sewer. With no return . Jesus said when you
see someone going down the wrong path in life, to show them their error
so they can hopefully get back on the correct path. To do otherwise
(which todays twisted tolerance philosophy is) is to show you dont
really care about the person nor the repercussions which come from
his/her actions... both for the individual and for society as a whole.

'If more people followed that principle and adopted the "live and let
live" credo, there'd be a lot less strife in this world.'

REPLY: More and more people have followed this tolerance credo over
the last few decades...so today we have your credo expanded to the
following : 45,000,000 americans with genital herpes, 5,500,000 new
cases per year of Human Papoloid Virus (the precursor to cervical cancer
in women) , 33 circulating STD's of which nearly all are permanent for
life, countless misled Americans thinking traditional marriage is of
the 'dark ages' , the growing acceptance that two men making love with
each others feces and demanding the populus recognize their behavior as
a perfectly acceptable lifestyle, 4400 developing human beings/day
being sucked into a nearby sink while 'the mother' watches from 3 feet
away (Americas own Haulocaust) , multitudes being brainwashed into
thinking they can do whatever they desire because of moral relativism
(just so long as others practice absolute morality toward them ) , a
growing flagrant disregard for others possesions, et al, ad nauseum.
Isnt Tolerant-ism just dandy ?

'Can we go back to talking about cars now? '

REPLY: Sure ; I drive a 2002 Hyundai SUV which arrived at my local
Dealership purely by accidental collisions upon collisions , over a very
long period of time, matter, and natural laws . All without any
personal intelligent input , I might add.
 
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