Synthetic Oil

Discussion in 'General Motoring' started by Steve and Janet, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. I have a 2003 Accent that I would like to keep as long as possible. I
    have had all the scheduled maintainence done on time. It has 45000
    miles on it. I have been changing the oil every 3000 miles with
    conventional oil. I was wondering what the group's members thought of
    using synthetic oil? Will it offer me an advantage over conventional
    oil as far as longevity of the engine??? Thanks
     
    Steve and Janet, Apr 20, 2008
    #1
  2. Steve and Janet

    Wayne Moses Guest

    Keep doing what you are doing with the conventional oil and drive the
    car like you want to keep it as long as possible.

    Using synthetic will make no significant difference to the longevity
    of the Accent, especially one that is driven carefully. You'd just be
    throwing your money away.

    Regards,
    Wayne Moses,
    2008 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited
     
    Wayne Moses, Apr 20, 2008
    #2
  3. Steve and Janet

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I can't say it will offer greater longevity, but it certainly will cut
    down on the number of oil changes you do. I conservatively use 5K mile
    changes with my vehicles that are still in warranty and 10K for those
    out of warranty. I took a Chrysler minivan to nearly 180K miles with
    10K change intervals prior to it being totaled by a drunk. It was
    running fine at that mileage using Mobil 1 with a 10K oil and filter
    changes interval.

    Synthetic will also help with cold starting and gives you more margin in
    hot weather as well. However, if you keep up the 3K changes with dino
    oil, it is unlikely you will see any significant longevity gain with
    synthetic.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Apr 20, 2008
    #3
  4. Steve and Janet

    Matt Whiting Guest

    If longevity is your only metric, I agree with you. However, synthetic
    offers several other advantages over dino oil that change the "throwing
    your money away" equation.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Apr 20, 2008
    #4
  5. Synthetic oils are superior to dino oils, but aside from very severe
    conditions, they are not needed and won't make the engine last appreciably
    longer. Changing every 3000 mile is more than needed also unless you have
    severe conditions. The 3000 mile change was normal years ago and is still
    propagated by places that sell oil, but most manufacturers recommend 7500
    miles under normal conditions. Your money so do as you see fit.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Apr 21, 2008
    #5
  6. Steve and Janet

    Crabman Guest

    What's interesting is that todays oils are very very good, and thus oil
    changes that are necessary at intervals below 5000 miles are more
    related to filtration quality than oil. Even synthetics are susceptible
    to dirt!

    I personally run dual filtration on my car, change filters every 5000,
    and 10000 plus on my oils. I use synthetics.

    I am a mechanical engineer, and have been a industrial hydraulic
    specialist for 10 years.

    Clay
     
    Crabman, Apr 21, 2008
    #6
  7. You are also probably using a better filter than the typical $3 Fram off the
    Wal-Mart shelf too. Will the typical consumer be willing to pay for a
    premium filter (such as used on hydraulic systems) no matter how much they
    are saving in the long run?
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Apr 21, 2008
    #7
  8. Steve and Janet

    Old_Timer Guest

    I have been told that there are other factors to consider than just
    mileage between changes.

    For example a vehcile that is used primarily for city driving with
    many short trips is considered by some to require more frequent oil
    changes.

    Also the time spam between changes. I have a truck that
    I drive kess than 3000 miles in six months and that is all city
    driving.

    Old_Timer
     
    Old_Timer, Apr 21, 2008
    #8
  9. Steve and Janet

    B.C. MALLAM Guest

    I had a Toyota before it was destroyed by a fast driving, cell ph. talking
    woman. It had 180,000 at the time and never had any trouble with it. I had
    changed the oil every 3000 miles and used Fram filters from Wally World. I
    think the key is not running the filters too long, any filter. I now have a
    new Elantra, love it.
     
    B.C. MALLAM, Apr 21, 2008
    #9
  10. Steve and Janet

    Crabman Guest

    Filters on hydraulic systems are made exactly the same way as Auto
    filters, and in the same factories, on the same assembly lines. There
    can be differences in filter media and micron rating, but you can, and
    most companies do, buy the cheapest hydraulic filters.

    Keep in mind, a filter does it's worst job of filtration when it's new!
    It filters better as it get dirty. Where the problem comes in is when
    the pressure relief in the filtration system starts to crack open and
    bypasses dirty oil into the engine/hydraulics.
    The bypass opens more than most people realize.In a car at speed, it's
    open a little most of the time.
    I run a bypass filter, so my oil is always filtered.

    My point was and is, that you can NOT run synthetics longer without
    keeping it clean. And, that dino oil works just as well, but does break
    down faster than synthetics. It still lasts much longer than oil sellers
    recommend!

    Clay
     
    Crabman, Apr 22, 2008
    #10
  11. Steve and Janet

    Bob Adkins Guest

    Seconded.

    Synthetic has its uses, but longevity and economy aren't among them.
    -

    Bob
     
    Bob Adkins, Apr 24, 2008
    #11
  12. Steve and Janet

    Bob Adkins Guest

    I've said that a few times and gotten roundly flamed for it. Good to
    finally hear someone else say it!

    A good way to improve filter longevity is to find the largest filter
    your car will accept. Knowing all the filter specs, including the
    thread diameter and pitch and gasket diameter, one can often find an
    exact match in a larger filter. For example, certain F150 Ford filters
    fit Toyota Tacoma's, and are significantly larger. That of course
    means the filter will last longer before bypassing. I guess the
    cartridge filters on the Lambda engines are already maxxed out,
    unfortunately.
    -

    Bob
     
    Bob Adkins, Apr 24, 2008
    #12
  13. Steve and Janet

    frijoli Guest

    Well you speak the truth about filters filtering better as they get
    dirty. This is true of air filters as well. Keeping in mind FLOW is
    reduced as the filter gets dirty.

    On the filter interchange, as long as the micron rating is the same or
    better, AND there is no internal bypass, the bigger the filter the more
    dirt holding capacity, the longer you can use it.
    This is because the flow rate stays high for longer.
    I don't use auto filters on my car, because industrial filters are
    bigger, and I can specify the micron rating.

    Clay
     
    frijoli, Apr 24, 2008
    #13
  14. Steve and Janet

    CBX2 Guest

    I always have to laugh at the ignorance of most people when it comes to
    Synthetics verses dino.Do you guys have a clue about all the different
    things oil has to do????
    Before you make ignrant statements like it won't have any effect on
    longevity READ SAE reports, READ FORD motors reports from 1976 on Mobil
    1 READ about the difference in shear rating and ability to hold
    viscosity and the difference in detergence.
    Clay seems to be one of the few who isn't talking out of his ass or
    just giving opinion.
    I have used synthetics since 76 Mobil 1 Redline synthetic gear oils and
    tranny oil.I use Shell Rotella Diesel synthetic now (cheaper than Mobil
    1 But I do use the synthetic filter from Mobil1.
    My gas milage on my vehicles has alway increased with the change to
    synthetis and I always get better than EPA estimates.
    I have my oils tested on each vehicle when new to provide info for
    warrantee protection.I use synthetic in all my bikes (22) my Accent and
    my Nissan Harbody. All have Redline synthetic inn the tranny AND rear
    ends.
    I'm sure my post will offend some of you but I'm sick of hearing
    ridiculous statements with no basis in fact.Don't take my word for it
    READ THE FACTS.
    Besides what do I know,I retired at 45
     
    CBX2, Apr 25, 2008
    #14
  15. Steve and Janet

    Mike Marlow Guest

    It would pay for you to read some of the many threads that have appeared in
    this forum on this topic. You'll find both a fair amount of genuine
    opinion, and a great deal of referenceable fact. Yes - there is a great
    deal of "clue" here when it comes to this topic.
    And you should read some of the more updated tests on the comparisons
    between dino and synthetic oils. No one here contests the differences
    between the two, but realizing any significant difference between the use of
    the two has been largely dispelled over the years.
    How much has your gas mileage increased? Did you begin adding synthetics
    immediately after purchasing a new vehicle? More factors than just oil
    affect gas mileage in new vehicles. All new vehicles will increase in gas
    mileage over the first 10,000 miles. Those who use dino oils also find
    themselves very capable of getting mileage above the EPA ratings.
    I'm glad you retired at 45, but that has nothing to do with the topic. Your
    post isn't offensive, but it is rather subjective and that's a bit
    inconsistent with your opening statements.
     
    Mike Marlow, Apr 25, 2008
    #15
  16. So what? I don't think many people doubt that synthetics are better, but
    the question is, do you need them? I've never used synthetics in my
    automobiles, but I have used them in small engines for high performance.
    I'm talking running at 15,000 rpm and higher where normal lubricants would
    die. For my cars? No need. I've never had an oil related problem in cars
    that I've had in excess of 200,000 miles.
    Sometimes people as for the opinion of others. It is up to them to decide
    if the comments came from their ass. OTOH, we could ask you to mark these
    conversations for us. Would you like to be the moderator?


    Could mean you were very smart, or it could mean you have more money than
    brains. Can't tell for sure from here but I'm leaning one way right now.
     
    Edwin Pawlowski, Apr 26, 2008
    #16
  17. Steve and Janet

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Which reports, where are they and what is the report or reference
    number? What is detergence? Is that anything like detergents?

    And shear resistance, viscosity stability and detergent capability
    doesn't necessarily affect longevity of the engine. Only if you run for
    very extended oil changes such that dino oil has pooped out will this
    make a difference. And with modern dino oils, that is a long time and
    many miles.

    I'm a big fan of synthetics and they have many advantages, and I believe
    an engine will last longer using them, but I have to agree with the dino
    folks that given frequent changes (5-7.5K) modern dino oil will take you
    to probably 200K miles. If you plan to drive your car for 500K miles or
    run 10,000+ change intervals, then synthetic might begin to some some
    good advantage.

    And you aren't one of the few.

    Good idea. I've used synthetics since about that time frame also, but
    I'm aware of what they add and don't add. They add greatly to cold
    start capability (especially at temps below -20 or so). They are better
    in extreme heat, but that isn't a problem where I live.

    Changes in fuel mileage are not enough to measure in normal driving and
    conditions. You'd need very controlled conditions and very good
    instrumentation to even notice a 2-4% advantage. This is the placebo
    affect at its best.

    You have provided no facts nor any references to facts.

    Given your demonstrated literacy, all I can say is isn't inheritance a
    wonderful thing.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Apr 26, 2008
    #17
  18. Steve and Janet

    Crabman Guest

    You guys are funny. I'm glad I don't get emotional about this stuff. :)

    Clay
     
    Crabman, Apr 26, 2008
    #18
  19. Steve and Janet

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Not as funny as you with your reference to facts that you won't or can't
    provide. THAT is funny!

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Apr 26, 2008
    #19
  20. Steve and Janet

    Crabman Guest

    You got the wrong guy Matt.

    Clay
     
    Crabman, Apr 26, 2008
    #20
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