The so called 'bumper to bumper' Hyundai warranty

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dave in Lake Villa
  • Start date Start date
i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a
inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms..
my friend has a honda accord 1995 with 450,000 kms and shes changed 4 so
far..
 
But it's not $400 in Des Moines, it's $800 and if I hadn't made the
call to other midwest dealers, I would have been ripped off. Believe
me, I am going to write Hyundai about the gouging here.
 
Putting a component in a vehicle that has the potential to ruin the
engine if it fails is poor engineering. The Hyundais use an
interference engine and the belt failure will ruin it. It's a built-in
time bomb and had I known about it, I would not have purchased the car.

For 2006, they have come to their senses by putting timing chains in
the vehicles.
 
I've long criticized interference engines, but most automakers still use
them. Unfortunately they're hard to avoid. Last I checked, Toyota had no
interference engines that were belt driven. The problem is that with fuel
economy standards continuing to encourage higher compression engines to
get more power out of a smaller (and more econimical engine), compression
ratios continue to increase. The higher the compression ratio, the more
difficult it is to make a noninterference engine.
 
Dealers are free to charge whatever they want. Some dealers charge more to
offset higher business costs such as higher rents in some areas. I take a
little issue with the use of the term "rip-off" when a customer agrees to
a price and receives the work which was contracted. The customer bears
some responsibility to check into pricing at a number of venues, and Ray
should be commended for doing so. Ask yourselves-- is saving $400 worth 4
hours driving? The answer varies. But Ray has made the point that it's at
least worth investigating. All those times I've posted that prices will
vary with geographic area-- they're true.

Also, be sure to determine whether you're comparing apples to apples. The
higher price quote may have also included a new tensioner and drive belts
while the lower quote may not. I'm not arguing this makes a $400
difference (it doesn't), but it may be worth considering. For what it's
worth, I strongly recommend replacing the tensioner with the belt. It's
only covered by the 5/60 warranty, and if it fails, the timing belt could
slip, causing the same damage as if the belt had broken or stripped.

For sake of comparison, another technician recently replaced the timing
belt and tensioner (but not drive belts) on an XG300 at my place of
employment, and the total for parts and labor was about $850. Considering
geographic differences, that does make the $800 in Des Moines sound a bit
high, even if it does include the drive belts. But again, the dealer has
the right to charge whatever he wants for his services.
 
Brian Nystrom said:
I'll bet that none of these vehicles had a 100,000 mile drivetrain
warranty either, did they?

Hyundai requires that you change the timing belt in order to maintain
the warranty. That's the price you pay for the extended warranty
coverage. That doesn't mean that the timing belt is going to wear out in
60K, 80K or even 100K miles, but Hyundai is not willing to take that
chance, since they're the one's that will be paying for the engine
damage if it does fail. If you want the coverage, you agree to the
terms. If you don't care about the warranty, you don't have to change
the timing belt. Your call.
Click to expand...

No need for the lecture - I simply responded to the comment that most
vehicles on the market today have timing belts and require regular changes.
No matter whether they had a 100,000 mile warranty or not - the facts is the
facts.
 
Jody said:
i dont know what the big deal is about replacing a belt, yeah its a
inconvienience and costs about 400.00 but its only every 100,000 kms..
my friend has a honda accord 1995 with 450,000 kms and shes changed 4 so
far..
Click to expand...

Big deal? Never said it was. My - this is a sensative little group isn't
it? If you don't mind changing a timing belt every 60K then fine. But -
that is an extreme warranty requirement. Will I do it? Sure, I bought the
car and I like the car. Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so
I'll do it. But a car with a 100,000 mile warranty should not require what
is a fairly major repair in order to maintain the warranty. You are
investing in the design problem to save the manufacturer from having to
honor their warranty.
 
But it's not $400 in Des Moines, it's $800 and if I hadn't made the
call to other midwest dealers, I would have been ripped off. Believe
me, I am going to write Hyundai about the gouging here.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess you could just sell the car and buy something that you
won't have to complain or whine about. But then again, you'd just
probably find something on your next vehicle to whine about....."Boo
Hoo, the world is trying to screw me". Get over it and move on.......
 
For sake of comparison, another technician recently replaced the timing
belt and tensioner (but not drive belts) on an XG300 at my place of
employment, and the total for parts and labor was about $850. Considering
geographic differences, that does make the $800 in Des Moines sound a bit
high, even if it does include the drive belts. But again, the dealer has
the right to charge whatever he wants for his services.
Click to expand...

Why would a belt/tensioner change cost $850? Does labor cost $200/hr or
something?

Chris
 
Mike said:
Big deal? Never said it was.
Click to expand...

Then why bother to whine about it?
My - this is a sensative little group isn't
it? If you don't mind changing a timing belt every 60K then fine. But -
that is an extreme warranty requirement.
Click to expand...

In your opinion. Obviously, that's not the general consensus here.
Will I do it? Sure, I bought the
car and I like the car. Hyundai requires it to maintain the warranty, so
I'll do it. But a car with a 100,000 mile warranty should not require what
is a fairly major repair in order to maintain the warranty.
Click to expand...

Again, that's your opinion, not a fact.
You are
investing in the design problem to save the manufacturer from having to
honor their warranty.
Click to expand...
Who says there's a design problem? It's not as if timing belts are
popping on Hyundais left and right. Hyundai feels that changing the
timing belt at 60K miles is prudent maintenance. Other car manufacturers
do too. This isn't as unusual as you think it is.
 
Putting a component in a vehicle that has the potential to ruin the
engine if it fails is poor engineering.
Click to expand...

Gee, I guess they shouldn't use bearings, connecting rods, pistons,
valves or any of those other potentially ruinous internal parts. I
wouldn't want to have one of them fail...
The Hyundais use an
interference engine and the belt failure will ruin it. It's a built-in
time bomb and had I known about it, I would not have purchased the car.
Click to expand...

Gee, do you think you can exaggerate the issue a bit more??? "Time
bomb", what a joke!
For 2006, they have come to their senses by putting timing chains in
the vehicles.
Click to expand...

Then maybe you should buy one so you can sleep at night.
 
Brian Nystrom said:
Then why bother to whine about it?
Click to expand...

Reading comprehension is your friend Brian - I never whined. Or do you just
like to throw little tid bits like that out there at anyone who happens to
hold a little different opinion than yours?
In your opinion. Obviously, that's not the general consensus here.
Click to expand...

So - I'm not entitled to an opinion?
Again, that's your opinion, not a fact.
Click to expand...

Again - that seems to bother you.
Who says there's a design problem? It's not as if timing belts are
popping on Hyundais left and right. Hyundai feels that changing the
timing belt at 60K miles is prudent maintenance. Other car manufacturers
do too. This isn't as unusual as you think it is.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not. This is my first Hyundai and I've been a long time GM
guy. I do all of my own work - both body and repair and I have no blind
spots for the problems with GM's, but I've never heard of having to replace
a timing belt at 60,000 before buying this car. Like I said - it's not a
big deal. I'll replace the belt when the time comes. Just seems a bit odd.
From what I see people posting about the price of this job (if you go to the
dealer), this is a bit more pricey than "prudent maintenance".
 
Brian Nystrom said:
All of them that I know of. FWIW, when I replaced the timing belt on my
old Excel @64K miles, it was nearly indistiguishable from the new belt I
installed. The replacement was still in the car when I sold it, 112K
miles later. I'm not suggesting that anyone take the risk of not
changing a timing belt, but they can last a long time.
Click to expand...

This does not surprise me. Unless there is a real design problem with an
engine that causes it to eat belts, today's belts really should go well over
100,000 miles. I'm guessing the belts in the Hyundai will as well, but I'm
not going to be the guy that tests that theory. A timing belt is easy
enough to change and though I don't necessarily believe it should be a
requirement to keep a warranty in place, it's not the kind of thing I'm
going to use as my hill to die on.
The only timing belt failure I've experienced was in a car with a
leaking main seal that coated the timing belt with oil for ~20K+ miles
until it finally shed a couple of teeth. However, it was not a Hyundai
and I have no idea how durable the timing belts in the current Hyundai
models typically are. When my Elantra hits 60K miles, I'll change the
timing belt myself to keep Hyundai happy, as I did with the Excel.
Click to expand...

The only failure of this type that I've experienced was on a chain equipped
engine. It was a 1976 Mercury Capri with a 6 cyl. The teeth were fiber,
bonded to steel hubs and, though I didn't know it at the time, were a known
wear point. Fortunately, the Capri's 6 cyl was not an interference motor so
when the teeth departed this life, no real damage was done. It was a pretty
straight forward remove and replace thing, with the obvious timing
considerations.
 
The warranty you're keeping in place is the warranty on the timing belt.
If your timing belt fails and you didn't replace it with a factory belt
when it was due, then Hyundai will not cover the repairs. That doesn't
mean your entire warranty was void-- only repairs arising out of your
failure to replace the timing belt when due.

It would be no different than if your radiator were clogged or your engine
were sludged and you hadn't done your coolant or oil changes as required.
 
In the geographic area where I'm employed, everything is marked up. Parts
are sold above list. Labor is very expensive. There are many service
facilities in my area with labor rates well above $100 an hour.
 
Bearings, connecting rods, pistons and valves are covered under the
warranty.
Click to expand...

And there is no recommended replacement interval for them either.

I personally don't think Hyundai is asking too much by having a major
recommended service interval done at 60,000 miles, I think thats pretty much
when most car makers have one. And as for the 100,000 powertrain warranty,
well you can always get extended warranties with a chevy vehicle, you know
hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car, they figure its
better for them to make the extra profit then some 3rd party "insurance
company" which is what most extended warranty companies are, they are
betting that your car isnt going to have a major failure for 100,000 miles.
say 100 people give them $1500 and only 5 of them have major issues that
cost $4000 apiece they still make off with $130,000 plus interest, plus the
bank makes money because that cost was probably financed as well.

So lets say covering the extra warranty period only costs hyundai $400 per
car on average, which gets passed onto the consumer, if you put in $800 to
do the 60K service, thats only $1200 for an extended warranty.

Probably the best thing to do when looking at a new car is to grab the
manual, take a look at what the recommended services are, and then go to the
service department and price it out, and see what the additional costs of
owning the vehicle will be, and figure out how long you will be owning it.

Best thing car makers/dealerships could do is figure out the long term
costs, and then sell service work contracts to people, that cover all the
recommended maintenance to certain milage intervals, including all oil
changes, coolant flushes, steering flushes, brake flushes, intervaled brake
pad changes, and maybe even tire changes based on wear, and then sell it to
the owner so they can just finance it along with the vehicle, and when they
hit a service interval, they just take it back to their dealer. Alot of
people would probably like the $4000 of service work just rolled into the
loan so they can take care of it over 72 months.
 
The information provided in the link is incorrect. Hyundai does recommend
4 years or 60k miles on all their vehicles with timing belts. If you have
a Hyundai and you doubt me, you should check your owner's manual. The
vehicle owner's manual is the maintenance god. If you don't do what it
says, you should expect to foot the bill for any consequences from not
performing your maintenance.

While what's said about it not being likely that the belt will fail
immediately is true for most engines, it's not a gamble I recommend people
take. If you're outside the maintenance interval and you didn't replace
the belt, you'll be picking up the dime for any resulting damage. I had
to put an engine in an XG once. The bill was about $10,000. (Granted, in
most cases, timing belt failure doesn't equal engine, but I'm hoping you
get the picture. If you think the timing belt is expensive, you're not
going to want to hear about the repairs due to damage from a broken timing
belt).
 
Paradox said:
you know hyundai just buries the cost into the price of the car
Click to expand...

Yet they still manage to offer lower prices and higher value than the
Chevys you allude to. No wonder GM is laying off 30,000 workers and
bankruptcy is not out of the question. If I was forced to own GM junk,
I'd buy an extended warranty, since it's a good bet that I'd need it.
 
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