S
Shaman
Matt Whiting said:
Costco does the same thing. 80 lbs on my 2006 Sonata V6 when they rotate the
wheels.
Shaman
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Costco does the same thing. 80 lbs on my 2006 Sonata V6 when they rotate the
wheels.
Shaman
S
Shaman
Matt Whiting said:It still isn't free. Even it if only costs $5/tire, that means that
Costco could use air and lower their tire costs by $5.
Matt
And what if I didn't even bought my tires there? My tires doesn't come from
Costco, and they charged me a big 0$ So the price of their tires doesn't
affect me. I never bought tires from them, and I think never will.
Shaman
S
Shaman
Matt Whiting said:You need to study your physics. If you start out with 80% nitrogen and
20% oxygen (rounding to simply the numbers) and all of the oxygen leaks
out, you have now 100% nitrogen, but your pressure is down by about 20%.
Right
If I now add air to bring the pressure back up to where I started, I have
80% nitrogen, plus 80% of the 20% air that I just added is nitrogen, so I
now have 96% nitrogen and 4% oxygen am at my normal pressure again. If
all of the oxygen leaks out again, I'm not down only 4% in pressure. So,
I add enough air to bring me back to normal pressure. I now have 96%
nitrogen, plus 80% of the 4% air that I added, which gives me 99.2%
nitrogen. I will asymptotically approach 100% nitrogen, however, even
after one cycle I have as pure a nitrogen fill as the Ford article claims
was adequate.
Matt
Maybe should go back to school to study me physics, as you said...
Shaman
E
Edwin Pawlowski
Matt Whiting said:I use a tire store that advertises that they use a torque wrench to
properly torque the lug nuts and they do as I've watched them to be sure.
Matt
A rarity (and a keeper). Most tire jockeys have no idea what a torque wrench
is.
E
Eric G.
A rarity (and a keeper). Most tire jockeys have no idea what a torque
wrench is.
I have to agree here with Edwin. At least in my area, you can't find a
shop that doesn't use an impact wrench to put the lugs back on. And I am
talking all the way from the "best" tire store, right down to Costco. The
last time I had tires done for me (I usually do them myself at work now if
the auto shop guy gives me permission) I had to demand a torque wrench be
used. I think they only agreed because the prior visit to them resulted in
two broken studs on one of my Elantra's. One of the mechanics had to drive
across the street to Sears to BUY a torque wrench. Can you believe they
didn't even HAVE one! The even funnier thing is that I went with a friend
recently to Sam's Club (like Costco) and while I was waiting for him to
shop, I was watching the tire installation department....they were actually
using a torque wrench...go figure.
Eric
M
Matt Whiting
Edwin said:A rarity (and a keeper). Most tire jockeys have no idea what a torque wrench
is.
Sad, but true. I rotate my own tires partially so that I can ensure
they are torqued correctly. The other reason is that it gives me a good
chance to inspect the brakes, suspension, etc., when I have the car off
the ground and the wheels off.
Matt
M
Matt Whiting
Shaman said:Maybe should go back to school to study me physics, as you said...
Well, I have going on eight years of college, six of that in
engineering. What is your experience with physics? I'd like to see
your explanation as to why you think adding air won't increase the
nitrogen fraction if the oxygen is continually leaking out.
Matt
P
pmkeating
As the topic said... what do you guys think about that?
Shaman
I've been a tire engineer for 15 years. N2 won't hurt anything but I
wouldn't pay an exrta dime for it. If you go that route you still
need to check your tire pressures regularly. In theory, N2 does
permeate a tire's innerliner slightly more slowly than normal air, but
if you pick up a nail or are leaking at the rim or valve it won't help
a bit. Checking your tire pressure is also your best chance to notice
irregular treadwear patterns before it's too late and to spot any
potentially dangerous tire damage (like a bulge) before your tire
falls apart at 70 MPH.
N2 is not drier than dry air. Any decent tire shop you go to will be
using dry air (to protect their air tools if nothing else).
Getnitrogen is a sales group for nitrogen, it shouldn't surprize
anyone that they support its use.
H
hyundaitech
Pat Goss's recommendations are paid for by the manufacturer of the product.
Take a closer listen to the show. You'll see it's quite a bit about
selling product and not so much about answering questions.
Take a closer listen to the show. You'll see it's quite a bit about
selling product and not so much about answering questions.
H
hyundaitech
"One of the mechanics had to drive across the street to Sears to BUY a
torque wrench."
ROFL!
torque wrench."
ROFL!
E
Eric G.
"One of the mechanics had to drive across the street to Sears to BUY a
torque wrench."
ROFL!
Oh, I wasn't laughing at the time, but it is hillarious now. How does
someone call themself an auto mechanic and not even own a torque wrench!!??
I have 3 of them myself and wouldn't even call myself a mechanic. Although
I pretty much do swing wrenches all day at work, but it sure isn't on
automobiles. If I didn't use a torque wrench, I would void the warranty on
most of the equipment here at work. And believe me, when I have to call a
manufacturer for service, that is usually the first thing the tech will
check.
Eric
M
Matt Whiting
hyundaitech said:"One of the mechanics had to drive across the street to Sears to BUY a
torque wrench."
ROFL!
That obviously isn't a true statement. A mechanic would already own a
torque wrench. The person who went to buy the wrench was not a mechanic.
Matt
B
Bob
I've been a tire engineer for 15 years. N2 won't hurt anything but I
wouldn't pay an exrta dime for it. If you go that route you still
need to check your tire pressures regularly. In theory, N2 does
permeate a tire's innerliner slightly more slowly than normal air, but
if you pick up a nail or are leaking at the rim or valve it won't help
a bit. Checking your tire pressure is also your best chance to notice
irregular treadwear patterns before it's too late and to spot any
potentially dangerous tire damage (like a bulge) before your tire
falls apart at 70 MPH.
N2 is not drier than dry air. Any decent tire shop you go to will be
using dry air (to protect their air tools if nothing else).
Getnitrogen is a sales group for nitrogen, it shouldn't surprize
anyone that they support its use.
Why not Carbon Dioxide? What's it's molecular size, and how does it behave
with regard to volume / temperature? According to Michelin's web site, Air,
Nitrogen, and Carbon Dioxide are allowed for inflation purposes.
B
Brian Nystrom
Edwin said:You think what is right? High pressure is bad for gas mileage? It usually
improves. Or that nitrogen has cooling effects? It may not expand as much
as oxygen, but it is not going to act as a coolant to keep the tires more
"cold". Higher pressure may or may not be bad for the tire, depending on
actual pressure and speed traveled.
I'd take if for free too, but I'd still not believe the un-natural acts of
physics he is speaking.
Ed's right. You really should educate yourself regarding things
automotive, as there's no telling when this guy or some other moron
could give you some really bad, even potentially dangerous advice. I
can't think of a single industry that's more full of myths, BS, outright
lies and thievery than the automotive service industry.
B
Brian Nystrom
Shaman said:Who said that I bought my tires there? I never bought tires at Costco, the
little shop where I go always have unbeatable prices on tires. Anyway, I had
it for free (Nitrogen inflated tires), so where is the problem?
There is no problem with the nitrogen in your tires; the problem is that
you readily accepted a line of complete BS as to why nitrogen is
"better". I'm not trying to rag on you or anything, but you really need
to educate yourself or at least do some research before some idiot or
slimebag screws you over. You got lucky this time.
B
Brian Nystrom
Matt said:It isn't the tires, it is the installation. Most places like Costco,
Wally World, etc., don't properly torque the tires and often don't get
them balanced all that well.
How do you torque a tire?
B
Brian Nystrom
Bob said:Why not Carbon Dioxide? What's it's molecular size, and how does it behave
with regard to volume / temperature? According to Michelin's web site, Air,
Nitrogen, and Carbon Dioxide are allowed for inflation purposes.
There you go! If we all inflated our tires with CO2, we could prevent
climate change! ;-)
S
Steve R.
May I add something here;
It's another marketing scheme to separate you and your hard-earned money. I
go through this all the time with my wife.
I use a locally-owned shop for all my tire needs. He refuses to install an
N2 system, citing it's a waste of customer's money (and his).
He does offer the brand name/higher priced tires but rarely suggests them.
His dad opened the shop 30 years ago and I have yet to
return anything that he's sold me.
Higher pressure? My brother increases his TP to 50 lbs when he drives
cross-country and claims he get 2-3 MPG better, but I know he's got to wear
a kidney belt.
Never mind the increased wear and tear on the suspension components.
My Sonata has 225/50R17 and I keep them at 40.
My point here is that this is reminiscent of a scam by a station near my
grandma's house (senior community) where the local garage/gas staion got
busted for charging seniors to replace the air in the tires, "old air loses
its ability to properly support the vehicle and causes decreased mileage".
My local Hyundai dealer doesn't even try to sell me this garbage. He knows
I'm an ex-mechanic and that I wouldn't buy into such a thing. Beware of the
"Club" tires and services.
Steve
It's another marketing scheme to separate you and your hard-earned money. I
go through this all the time with my wife.
I use a locally-owned shop for all my tire needs. He refuses to install an
N2 system, citing it's a waste of customer's money (and his).
He does offer the brand name/higher priced tires but rarely suggests them.
His dad opened the shop 30 years ago and I have yet to
return anything that he's sold me.
Higher pressure? My brother increases his TP to 50 lbs when he drives
cross-country and claims he get 2-3 MPG better, but I know he's got to wear
a kidney belt.
Never mind the increased wear and tear on the suspension components.
My Sonata has 225/50R17 and I keep them at 40.
My point here is that this is reminiscent of a scam by a station near my
grandma's house (senior community) where the local garage/gas staion got
busted for charging seniors to replace the air in the tires, "old air loses
its ability to properly support the vehicle and causes decreased mileage".
My local Hyundai dealer doesn't even try to sell me this garbage. He knows
I'm an ex-mechanic and that I wouldn't buy into such a thing. Beware of the
"Club" tires and services.
Steve
O
Oz
To set the record straight Nitrogen has less moisture than the air we
breathe. When a tire heats up it expands. The less moisture in a
tire the less expansion. Tire expansion or overinflated tires MAY
increase fuel economy (by decreasing rolling resistance) slightly...
BUT as a tire expands the contact patch (rubber on the road) decreases
causing your traction, handling, and ride comfort to diminish. An
over-inflated tire is also more prone to puncture or to damage (ie
when you run over a pot hole, etc). The guy from Costco just didn't
quite have his facts straight... but he is headed in the right
direction, and we know that it is NEVER possible that someone could
have their facts straight but the person listening to the sales pitch
was the dummy that couldn't accurately recall or didn't understand the
concept........ no this is not possible........
breathe. When a tire heats up it expands. The less moisture in a
tire the less expansion. Tire expansion or overinflated tires MAY
increase fuel economy (by decreasing rolling resistance) slightly...
BUT as a tire expands the contact patch (rubber on the road) decreases
causing your traction, handling, and ride comfort to diminish. An
over-inflated tire is also more prone to puncture or to damage (ie
when you run over a pot hole, etc). The guy from Costco just didn't
quite have his facts straight... but he is headed in the right
direction, and we know that it is NEVER possible that someone could
have their facts straight but the person listening to the sales pitch
was the dummy that couldn't accurately recall or didn't understand the
concept........ no this is not possible........
M
Matt Whiting
Oz said:To set the record straight Nitrogen has less moisture than the air we
breathe.
You can't say this with certainty. It all depends on the source of the
nitrogen and the source of the air. I was in Las Vegas a couple of
years ago and the RH was 3%. Depending on the source of nitrogen and
how it was processed, it may or may not have as much moisture content as
air depending on where your air is from.
Matt