What to do to a new Elantra?

[Richard Dreyfuss]

This sounds odd but humor me.
I bought an '07 Elantra. Just out of curiosity, what things would you
do to a new car to make it easier to work on later? Up until my last
car I tended to own older used cars, and I hated working on them
because bolts were frequently frozen in place, everything was rusted
together, etc.

For example, if I can get the time, I'd love to take my brakes apart
and use anti-seize compound anywhere that's appropriate. Hopefully
things will come apart and go together that much more easily when the
time comes to actually do the work. (Note, I said anti-seize and not
grease, and I plan on tightening things to their proper torque. I want
them to come apart on command, not while driving.)

Are there plugs/connectors on the back of the foglights that could
corrode? This is rhetorical, I'll check it myself. But I"ve seen
enough dead aftermarket ones that if there is a connector there some
dielectric grease may keep the corrosion away for a little longer.

Again, it probably sounds like I'm being a little too
anal/proactive/possibly ineffective, but what things do you hate about
working older cars that could be prevented?

Ben

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Again, it probably sounds like I'm being a little too
anal/proactive/possibly ineffective,
Yes

but what things do you hate about
working older cars that could be prevented?

These days, just about nothing. Last time I changed a bulb it already had
the dielectric grease on it.

Years ago, I'd agree with you. I remember being at my brother's house one
morning and he took the battery out to clean and paint the battery tray. I
came back that evening and he had the entire front end of the car apart to
prime and pain the underside. Bumper, fenders, cowlings, etc. It was a '69
Impala they was his daily driver until he bought a 2003 Grand Prix. He also
owned 15 other cars, but they were not driven much. (from 1928 Model A,
three 66 Mustangs, '55 Ford Convertible, etc)

They don't build 'em like the used to.

 

[Matt Whiting]

This sounds odd but humor me.
I bought an '07 Elantra. Just out of curiosity, what things would you
do to a new car to make it easier to work on later? Up until my last
car I tended to own older used cars, and I hated working on them
because bolts were frequently frozen in place, everything was rusted
together, etc.

For example, if I can get the time, I'd love to take my brakes apart
and use anti-seize compound anywhere that's appropriate. Hopefully
things will come apart and go together that much more easily when the
time comes to actually do the work. (Note, I said anti-seize and not
grease, and I plan on tightening things to their proper torque. I want
them to come apart on command, not while driving.)

Are there plugs/connectors on the back of the foglights that could
corrode? This is rhetorical, I'll check it myself. But I"ve seen
enough dead aftermarket ones that if there is a connector there some
dielectric grease may keep the corrosion away for a little longer.

Again, it probably sounds like I'm being a little too
anal/proactive/possibly ineffective, but what things do you hate about
working older cars that could be prevented?

Most modern cars use sealed electrical connectors that seldom give
trouble and many even have dielectric grease in them from the factory.

I also put grease on exposed bolts and nuts that I think I may need to
remove some day. I also put grease on the exposed part of the lug studs
(if they don't have the full cover lug nuts as is more common today) so
that the nuts come off easier when I next rotate tires.

I apply Vaseline to the battery terminals.

There really isn't much to do on more cars and trucks nowadays.

Matt

 

[Rev. Tom Wenndt]

A couple of more suggestions:

*Make sure you are "working" all the components of your car at least
occasionally. A good example would be the electric windows, especially the
rear ones which don't get a lot of work. The electrical motors definitely
work better when used frequently.

*Keep your car clean. There is little more you can do to help it maintain
its good look. With two-sided galvanized steel, clearcoat paint and more,
the manufacturers have ramped up their ability to keep your car looking nice
for years. But you still have to hold up your end.

*Be the same "fiend" concerning maintenance you always were with the older
cars. With the older ones, you did it in hopes that you had "saved" it.
You treat these new ones well from the very beginning (SO many don't), and
they will treat you well. And I am quite sure that you understand that this
means a WHOLE lot more than just oil changes.

Hope this helps.

 

[Matt Whiting]

A couple of more suggestions:

*Make sure you are "working" all the components of your car at least
occasionally. A good example would be the electric windows, especially the
rear ones which don't get a lot of work. The electrical motors definitely
work better when used frequently.

This is especially true for the parking brake. They die from rust long
before they will wear out. I use mine every time I park and I've never
had a cable seize.

Matt

 

[Brian Nystrom]

I also put grease on the exposed part of the lug studs
(if they don't have the full cover lug nuts as is more common today) so
that the nuts come off easier when I next rotate tires.

You should NEVER put grease on lugs, as it will result in them being
over-torqued. The specified torque setting for lugs are for DRY lugs.
Greasing reduces friction and when tightened to the recommended torque,
there will be too much tension on the lug, creating a risk of breakage.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

For example, if I can get the time, I'd love to take my brakes apart
and use anti-seize compound anywhere that's appropriate.

The front rotor do have a tendency to seize to the hubs, though
considering the heat involved and the length of time they're likely to
be on your car, it seems questionable whether applying anti-seize
between them would make any difference. If you've got nothing better to
do, it can't hurt.

 

[Matt Whiting]

You should NEVER put grease on lugs, as it will result in them being
over-torqued. The specified torque setting for lugs are for DRY lugs.
Greasing reduces friction and when tightened to the recommended torque,
there will be too much tension on the lug, creating a risk of breakage.

No kidding. That is why I only put grease on the threads that are
exposed (as I clearly stated above) after the nuts are torqued. If the
nuts are the "acorn" style and fully cover the studs, then no need for
grease at all.

Matt

 

[Mike Marlow]

You should NEVER put grease on lugs, as it will result in them being
over-torqued. The specified torque setting for lugs are for DRY lugs.
Greasing reduces friction and when tightened to the recommended torque,
there will be too much tension on the lug, creating a risk of breakage.

I've read this here many times, and I've also read links that people point
to in supporting this point. It has never convinced me though. I've always
seen in those links, something beyond the simple issue of grease vs. no
grease. The dry lug contention in my opinion, refers to a new condition,
clean lug. That's something seldom found on a car that has a few thousand
miles on it. Taking the matter to a further length, too much normal
corrosion will yield a higher resistance to lower torques, and will create a
false torque reading, as the reading will be responsive to the thread
resistance and not the force being applied to the wheel. It's the torque
when mating to the wheel that you're interested in and not just the torque
on the lug. If the nut can easily run up the lug and snug to the wheel,
then you're going to get a truer reading than if the lug is rusty. A light
coat of grease is not going to create a significantly different resistance
to torque at the thread, but a dry and normally corroded lug will. Put down
the impact gun and run a nut on by hand and you can easily feel the
resistance. As in everything else, there's more to the issue of grease/no
grease than the simplification of reducing the matter to a statement that
says no-grease.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

I've read this here many times, and I've also read links that people point
to in supporting this point. It has never convinced me though. I've always
seen in those links, something beyond the simple issue of grease vs. no
grease. The dry lug contention in my opinion, refers to a new condition,
clean lug. That's something seldom found on a car that has a few thousand
miles on it. Taking the matter to a further length, too much normal
corrosion will yield a higher resistance to lower torques, and will create a
false torque reading, as the reading will be responsive to the thread
resistance and not the force being applied to the wheel. It's the torque
when mating to the wheel that you're interested in and not just the torque
on the lug. If the nut can easily run up the lug and snug to the wheel,
then you're going to get a truer reading than if the lug is rusty. A light
coat of grease is not going to create a significantly different resistance
to torque at the thread, but a dry and normally corroded lug will. Put down
the impact gun and run a nut on by hand and you can easily feel the
resistance. As in everything else, there's more to the issue of grease/no
grease than the simplification of reducing the matter to a statement that
says no-grease.

All it takes is a light brushing with a stainless or bronze brush to
remove any rust from the threads if necessary. It takes no more time
than greasing does. There is no need to use grease. It DOES make a big
difference in the friction when installing a lug. If you don't want to
take my word for it, ask Hyundai. For that matter, there are more than a
few people on other forums who have snapped off Elantra wheel studs
after greasing them. Go ask them what they think of the practice now.

For the record, you should also not install lugs when they or the wheel
are wet, for exactly the same reason. Sometimes it's unavoidable - when
changing a flat in the rain, for example - but you should remove them
when it's convenient, let them dry, they re-torque them properly.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

No kidding. That is why I only put grease on the threads that are
exposed (as I clearly stated above) after the nuts are torqued.

And when you back the nuts off, you end up with grease on their threads.
Do you degrease them before reinstalling them?

 

[Matt Whiting]

And when you back the nuts off, you end up with grease on their threads.
Do you degrease them before reinstalling them?

Yes, to some degree, but I'm not too worried about it. The torque
tables have a fair bit of margin built into them and I don't have much
residual lubricant on the threads. I'm much farther away from yielding
the stud than are the monkeys at many garages that use an impact wrench
to install the lug nuts and tighten them so hard it flows the metal on
the rim chamfer.

Also, I'm a licensed professional engineer and know a little bit about
fasteners, material properties and torque.


Matt

 

[Matt Whiting]

I've read this here many times, and I've also read links that people point
to in supporting this point. It has never convinced me though. I've always
seen in those links, something beyond the simple issue of grease vs. no
grease. The dry lug contention in my opinion, refers to a new condition,
clean lug. That's something seldom found on a car that has a few thousand
miles on it. Taking the matter to a further length, too much normal
corrosion will yield a higher resistance to lower torques, and will create a
false torque reading, as the reading will be responsive to the thread
resistance and not the force being applied to the wheel. It's the torque
when mating to the wheel that you're interested in and not just the torque
on the lug. If the nut can easily run up the lug and snug to the wheel,
then you're going to get a truer reading than if the lug is rusty. A light
coat of grease is not going to create a significantly different resistance
to torque at the thread, but a dry and normally corroded lug will. Put down
the impact gun and run a nut on by hand and you can easily feel the
resistance. As in everything else, there's more to the issue of grease/no
grease than the simplification of reducing the matter to a statement that
says no-grease.

That is why a fair bit of margin is left with the tabular torque values.
Lubrication does make a large difference, typically requiring a 25-50%
reduction in torque applied depending on the lubricant type. However, a
very light coat of oil on clean threads doesn't make a tremendous
difference.

http://www.vfbolts.com/torque_value.htm

I much prefer the uniformity I get from keeping my lug studs and nuts
rust free than the issues that arise with rusty parts that will have
wild swings in the torque vs. tension relationship as Brian describes above.

Matt

 

[Matt Whiting]

All it takes is a light brushing with a stainless or bronze brush to
remove any rust from the threads if necessary. It takes no more time
than greasing does. There is no need to use grease. It DOES make a big
difference in the friction when installing a lug. If you don't want to
take my word for it, ask Hyundai. For that matter, there are more than a
few people on other forums who have snapped off Elantra wheel studs
after greasing them. Go ask them what they think of the practice now.

If they used the dry thread torque setting with lubricated threads, then
they might cause a problem, but they would still have to dramatically
overtorque the nuts to "snap off" the studs. Most dry torque values are
no more than 90% of the yield limit and this is way below the ultimate
limit for most common steels. Adding oil to the threads will not, by
itself, cause a lug to fail, at least not the first time. If you
repeatedly exceed the yield stress, you could elongate the stud to
failure, but I'll bet they were also over torquing in addition to
lubricating the threads.

I've used grease on my lug studs for 30 years and have never failed a
stud. I wipe off and wire brush the studs before I reassemble and what
little residual grease remains in the nut itself is inconsequential.

Matt

 

[Mike Marlow]

All it takes is a light brushing with a stainless or bronze brush to
remove any rust from the threads if necessary. It takes no more time than
greasing does. There is no need to use grease. It DOES make a big
difference in the friction when installing a lug. If you don't want to
take my word for it, ask Hyundai. For that matter, there are more than a
few people on other forums who have snapped off Elantra wheel studs after
greasing them. Go ask them what they think of the practice now.

OK, so work with me on this one Brian. Torque is torque. Torquing lugs to
any setting is going to result in the same torque applied to the threads,
whether they are lubed or dry. I could see where dry might present a small
amount of additional resistance, but that would seem to be trivial compared
to the resistance that the wheel presents. If all of these studs are
snapping off of Hyunai's then I'd surely suggest the problem more lies with
cheap steel in the studs, more than any problem presented by grease on the
threads. I don't care what Hyundai says - of course they aren't going to
say they have a problem with the studs. Lubricating studs has been a common
practice for as long as the stud and lug nut have been around. Suddenly
it's a problem?

For the record, you should also not install lugs when they or the wheel
are wet, for exactly the same reason. Sometimes it's unavoidable - when
changing a flat in the rain, for example - but you should remove them when
it's convenient, let them dry, they re-torque them properly.

This would point to a severe quality problem and not a problem of over
torquing studs.

 

[Mike Marlow]

If they used the dry thread torque setting with lubricated threads, then
they might cause a problem, but they would still have to dramatically
overtorque the nuts to "snap off" the studs. Most dry torque values are
no more than 90% of the yield limit and this is way below the ultimate
limit for most common steels. Adding oil to the threads will not, by
itself, cause a lug to fail, at least not the first time. If you
repeatedly exceed the yield stress, you could elongate the stud to
failure, but I'll bet they were also over torquing in addition to
lubricating the threads.

In which case the studs tend to give plenty of warning that the threads are
stretching. Turning them on and off makes it immediately obvious that a
stud is stretching. As Matt implies - there's no sudden death involved
here.

I've used grease on my lug studs for 30 years and have never failed a
stud. I wipe off and wire brush the studs before I reassemble and what
little residual grease remains in the nut itself is inconsequential.

As have I, on and off. I have never snapped a stud. If studs are suddenly
snapping on a particular model car, I'd say there's some junk steel in those
studs.

 

[Bob]

Yes, to some degree, but I'm not too worried about it. The torque tables
have a fair bit of margin built into them and I don't have much residual
lubricant on the threads. I'm much farther away from yielding the stud
than are the monkeys at many garages that use an impact wrench to install
the lug nuts and tighten them so hard it flows the metal on the rim
chamfer.

Also, I'm a licensed professional engineer and know a little bit about
fasteners, material properties and torque.


Matt

Doe the "anti-seize" some places (Wal-Mart, for instance) insist on putting
on have a similar effect? If it does, should they be reducing the torque to
some extent? BTW: I watch them like a hawk, and pre-mark the destination
location for the wheels with a sharpie on the wheel. The can't seem to
follow instructions regarding cross-forward, but they are cheap, and fast.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

OK, so work with me on this one Brian. Torque is torque. Torquing lugs to
any setting is going to result in the same torque applied to the threads,
whether they are lubed or dry.

That's true, but you've completely lost sight of the intent of torque
settings, which is to create a specific amount of tension in the stud.
It's an indirect setting - since there's no easy way to directly check
the stud tension - and it relies on certain conditions in order to
achieve the desired tension. The recommended torque settings are for
clean, dry studs and nuts.

If the studs/nuts are rusty/corroded, the increased friction will result
in the torque setting being reached before there is optimum tension in
the stud. This is not ideal, but it's not typically going to cause a
problem, since the increased friction also makes it less likely that a
nut will loosen.

OTOH, if the studs/nuts are lubricated, the reduced friction results in
the recommended torque setting not being reached until the tension in
the stud is higher than desired. The result can be stretching and
eventual failure of the stud. It is not always obvious when stretching
occurs.

As for asking Hyundai, I didn't mean to ask them if stud failures are a
problem, I meant ask them whether they recommend lubricating studs and
lug nuts. I'm betting the answer will be to clean off any rust or
corrosion and install them dry.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

That is why a fair bit of margin is left with the tabular torque values.
Lubrication does make a large difference, typically requiring a 25-50%
reduction in torque applied depending on the lubricant type. However, a
very light coat of oil on clean threads doesn't make a tremendous
difference.

http://www.vfbolts.com/torque_value.htm

I much prefer the uniformity I get from keeping my lug studs and nuts
rust free than the issues that arise with rusty parts that will have
wild swings in the torque vs. tension relationship as Brian describes
above.

I keep mine rust-free by brushing off any rust, if necessary. Since the
car comes with capped nuts, that's not even an issue. The chart you
provide proves my point about lubrication.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Doe the "anti-seize" some places (Wal-Mart, for instance) insist on putting
on have a similar effect? If it does, should they be reducing the torque to
some extent? BTW: I watch them like a hawk, and pre-mark the destination
location for the wheels with a sharpie on the wheel. The can't seem to
follow instructions regarding cross-forward, but they are cheap, and fast.

If you look at the chart at the link that Matt provided, you'll see that
anti-seize is the worst thing you can put on wheel studs, as it
dramatically reduces friction and will result in too much tension in the
studs.