Hyundai Admits Major Airbag Problem

[Brian Nystrom]

If I was her, I would do what I could to make sure it was off anytime I
was in the car. Airbags and smaller persons can be a deadly combination.

Why? She's more than big enough for the airbag to work properly.

More like if idiots didn't mandate airbags that kill, we wouldn't have
this problem.

If people weren't so damn stupid and obstinate and would wear seatbelts,
we wouldn't need powerful airbags, or any airbags at all. Like it or
not, the fault ultimately lies with the attitudes of drivers.

 

[David J and Lynne J Shepherd]

Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.

 

[Ben]

If people weren't so damn stupid and obstinate and would wear seatbelts,
we wouldn't need powerful airbags, or any airbags at all. Like it or
not, the fault ultimately lies with the attitudes of drivers.

Even a person wearing a seatbelt can benefit from an airbag in an accident. I
doubt an airbag would be much good at all without a seatbelt being worn.

--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

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[Tony P.]

Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.

Oh sure, modern crumple zones and safety cages are great things. The
difference between cars of today and cars of old is that now the car
gets totalled for the least little thing because they're designed to
self destruct in even minor accidents.

 

[SoCalMike]

Guys for what is worth as a Auto Insurance field adjuster for 10 years, I've
seen a lot of head on collisions of cars and trucks of all sizes, and I am
amazed at how people come out of these things unharmed, now I know there are
a lot of factors to account for this, modern crumple zones, the belts, the
bags, but something is working, these same collisions with a rigid ,non
belted ,non airbag car used to kill people.

did you see all those dead children? the ones in airbag equipped cars?

 

[David J and Lynne J Shepherd]

I am not supporting the across the board use of these airbags, certainly
early on in their use, there were tragic incidents, but with all the info
now and the gen11 system , most experts believe they will save lives. I am
just telling you what I experienced, I am sure if surveyed ,many people
would swear they were saved by them. Lots of anecdotal opinions and facts
are flying around on this issue, not diminish the tragic incidents, but how
many is "all the dead children", sounds kind of hysterical to me.

 

[BCDC]

Recently had to take my XG in to get the radio replaced because it kept
turning itself on. I don't believe I'm the only one that's experienced that
problem. However, I had to take it in the first time for the dealer to check
out the circuits to make sure it wasn't just a wiring problem, or so I was
told. No, it WAS the radio. The dealer ordered one & I went back a couple of
weeks later to get the 'new' one installed. Dealer looked after me right
away BUT a 1/2 hour later I realized that the #%%$@*& CD player didn't work.
Now here's the catch, it takes me 5 hours round trip to go to the closest
dealer!!!! So far I've got 10 hours of drive time into getting what I think
should be straight forward warrant work done. The dealer is annoyed too that
they were given a defective radio but that's nothing compared to my 15 hours
driving into getting the &**% thing fixed by the time the next one is
installed.
On top of this I've got shimmy in the front end when I hit the brakes when
they are hot. I've told the dealer I want them fixed under warranty & if
they don't do it that way I can & will do it myself but then my next new car
won't be a Hyundai. That would be too bad b/c otherwise the vehicle has been
very acceptable.
BCinBC

 

[Dave C.]

Recently had to take my XG in to get the radio replaced because it kept
turning itself on. I don't believe I'm the only one that's experienced that
problem. However, I had to take it in the first time for the dealer to check
out the circuits to make sure it wasn't just a wiring problem, or so I was
told. No, it WAS the radio. The dealer ordered one & I went back a couple of
weeks later to get the 'new' one installed. Dealer looked after me right
away BUT a 1/2 hour later I realized that the #%%$@*& CD player didn't work.
Now here's the catch, it takes me 5 hours round trip to go to the closest
dealer!!!! So far I've got 10 hours of drive time into getting what I think
should be straight forward warrant work done. The dealer is annoyed too that
they were given a defective radio but that's nothing compared to my 15 hours
driving into getting the &**% thing fixed by the time the next one is
installed.
On top of this I've got shimmy in the front end when I hit the brakes when
they are hot. I've told the dealer I want them fixed under warranty & if
they don't do it that way I can & will do it myself but then my next new car
won't be a Hyundai. That would be too bad b/c otherwise the vehicle has been
very acceptable.
BCinBC

With all that driving time, wouldn't it be easier to order a new CD stereo
from crutchfield with a free install kit to fit your car? In the end you'd
save money, and the stereo would be more reliable and sound better. Just a
suggestion. I know you shouldn't have to do this for a brand new car, but
what is your time worth? Good CD car stereos start around a hundred bucks,
so it's probably cheaper just to buy a new one and be done with it. If the
brand new original equipment replacement is defective, how long is the OEM
radio going to last even if you get a good one next time?

You are warping your front end brake rotors. That is something that
normally wouldn't be covered under any kind of manufacturer warranty. Brake
pads/rotors are usually considered consumable items, kind of like tires and
air filters. -Dave

 

[R.White]

did you see all those dead children? the ones in airbag equipped cars?

Did you see how they died?

Most were involved in accidents involving pre-impact braking amd were
unrestrained meaning they were thrown into the dash area before the
airbag
deployed. Sound more like bad parenting contributed to their deaths.

• Since 1990, 242 deaths reportedly have been caused by airbags
inflating in low severity crashes, most of them in older model
vehicles. These deaths include 84 drivers, 11 adult passengers, 124
children, and 23 infants.

• Of the 84 drivers killed by airbags, (63 females, 21 males), 53 are
believed to have been unbelted, 24 were belted, and 4 misused their
seatbelts. Two of the belted drivers were unconscious and slumped over
their steering wheels. Belt use is unknown for the other three
drivers.

• Of the 11 adult passengers killed by passenger airbags 9 were
females (7 were older than 65 years-old) and 2 were males ages 57 and
85. Seven adult passengers are believed to have been unbelted or
improperly belted, 4 were belted. Seven of the incidents involved
pre-impact braking.

• Of the 124 children killed by passenger airbags, 93 are believed to
have been unrestrained; 26 children were improperly restrained and 5
were restrained. Twenty of the unrestrained children were seated in
the lap of a front passenger and 3 were unrestrained and on the lap of
the driver. Most of these crashes involved pre-impact braking.

• Of the 23 infants killed by airbags, 12 are believed to be
restrained in rear-facing infant seats; 4 in rear-facing restraints on
laps; 5 were not properly secured in rear-facing restraints and 2
unknown if properly restrained. Sixteen cases involved pre-impact
braking and in 1 case pre-impact braking is unknown.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

Even a person wearing a seatbelt can benefit from an airbag in an
accident. I doubt an airbag would be much good at all without a seatbelt
being worn.

That's exactly the point, but people still refuse to wear belts, perhaps
even moreso when they have airbags, despite the warnings that come with
every car. The stupidity of the American public never ceases to amaze me.

 

[SoCalMike]

• Of the 124 children killed by passenger airbags, 93 are believed to
have been unrestrained; 26 children were improperly restrained and 5
were restrained. Twenty of the unrestrained children were seated in
the lap of a front passenger and 3 were unrestrained and on the lap of
the driver. Most of these crashes involved pre-impact braking.

so, basically its 5 kids who still died, even with seat belts AND
airbags. and those 5 might have lived if they were in the back seat of
the car.

ive known people that have been in accidents that have deployed the
airbag, and all of them have said that theyd never buy a car that didnt
have one.

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

ive known people that have been in accidents that have deployed the
airbag, and all of them have said that theyd never buy a car that didnt
have one.

That's nice, but hardly scientific. Such individuals, upon learning one
way or another that the bag deployed, often say "My airbag saved my life!"
without knowing any such thing. Correlation does NOT imply causation, and
it's just as unreasonable to expect Cathy or Cameron Consumer to know
anything about crash science as it is to ascribe any weight to their
uninformed pronouncements of what saved their life.

Science -- that is, unemotional analysis of actual data -- shows us that
in North America, driver and passenger airbags give a statistical 9%
benefit in safety across *ALL* vehicle collisions. The figure is very low
compared to airbag-benefit figures in countries where the bags are truly
designed as _supplemental_ restraints (compared to the North American bags
that are legally required to be large and forceful enough to "save" an
UNbelted 50th-percentile adult male dummy in a 30mph frontal collision).
The North American bag-benefit figure is dragged down by the injuries and
deaths that North American airbags cause to vehicle occupants, even belted
ones, who are smaller and lighter than the 50th-percentile adult male.
These injuries and deaths are virtually unheard of with ADR- or ECE-type
airbags used throughout the rest of the world.

Saving those who are too stupid to protect themselves is incompatible with
maximizing benefit and minimizing risk to those who buckle up, and the
real-world numbers reflect that.

As a final point of interest, the same statistical benefit in a collision
-- 9 percent -- can be had simply by being in a car that weighs 200 pounds
more than baseline. Food for thought.

DS

 

[Curtis CCR]

Recently had to take my XG in to get the radio replaced because it kept
turning itself on. I don't believe I'm the only one that's experienced that
problem. However, I had to take it in the first time for the dealer to check
out the circuits to make sure it wasn't just a wiring problem, or so I was
told. No, it WAS the radio. The dealer ordered one & I went back a couple of
weeks later to get the 'new' one installed. Dealer looked after me right
away BUT a 1/2 hour later I realized that the #%%$@*& CD player didn't work...

We had the same problem with our '01 Sonata. Seems Hyundais stereo
have a reputation for malfunctioning. On ours it was the CD portion
of the stereo that would turn on the radio. The stereo will power on
if it senses you inserting a CD when it's turned off. Ours was
intermintently sensing that a CD was being insterted because of a
short or something. It quickly determines "no CD" and the radio would
come on by default.

I don't consider our Sonata to be a high-end car at all. It was good
value as it meets our needs, provides an acceptable level performance,
and isn't ugly. We got car that the size of a Accord for the price of
a Civic.

We will be replacing an 95 Explorer later this year - probably going
to a minivan or light SUV. In a couple of years, when we will likely
want to replace the Sonata, we may look at the "high-end" Hyundai. I
have not driven a 350, but I did get a 300 as rental a couple of years
ago and thought it was a nice car.

 

[SoCalMike]

That's nice, but hardly scientific. Such individuals, upon learning one
way or another that the bag deployed, often say "My airbag saved my life!"
without knowing any such thing. Correlation does NOT imply causation,

but you dont know it *doesnt* either. airbags are not the end all and be
all of automotive safety. but given a choice between a car with nothing,
lap belts only, 3 point harness or 3 point with dual stage airbag, the 3
point with dual stage airbag is going to be safer.

safest of all would be a 5 point racing harness, helmet with HANS,
airbags, and a full enveloping welded steel structural safety cage.

that isnt going to happen.

 

[SoCalMike]

I don't consider our Sonata to be a high-end car at all. It was good
value as it meets our needs, provides an acceptable level performance,
and isn't ugly. We got car that the size of a Accord for the price of
a Civic.

and now that sonata is worth about half the price of an '01 civic. which
is ok, if youre going to drive it until its junked.

 

[Atom1]

We had the same problem with our '01 Sonata. Seems Hyundais stereo

We will be replacing an 95 Explorer later this year - probably going
to a minivan or light SUV.

Is it a coincidence or a requirement that mini-van drivers are the worst
drivers ever. They get in the fast lane to go 50mph, put blinkers on but
not off, obscure visibility and are generally an eyesore. I don't even try
to let them in traffic at the off ramps anymore,because it's inevitable
they'll go at least 5 miles below the speed limit. Not to mention all the
extra peripherals (DVD & Games) added to encourage an accident. We saw that
episode of the Simpsons when the Americans put all that junk in the lighter
to stuff their faces in traffic- too funny, but also pathetic.

Unless you have a tribe or other legitimate reason, i.e. business, to buy
one of those things, (and so you can load up at the cheap grocery feed store
is not one those parking lots are full of them-from my observation?), you do
not NEED one. And if you WANT one, well that's a problem all it's own.

Right now the influx of tourists (they come in waves by country) Germans
right now are taking up the whole town with their mini-vans that have become
quite popular over the last few years. They used to only come with the Mini
Winnies which we carped over but now it's worse with the addition of the
mini-van invasion (they take up 2.5 of a regular car, so parking is a PITA
and ferry travel slows considerably). Hate 'em, hate 'em, hate 'em- the
minivans- not the Germans. And they literally block whole streets, made for
Fiat sized cars.

Sorry, just a peeve- this board is my commitment to frugal therapy.

Michelle
Italy

 

[Steve B.]

Ben wrote:

That's exactly the point, but people still refuse to wear belts, perhaps
even moreso when they have airbags, despite the warnings that come with
every car. The stupidity of the American public never ceases to amaze me.

I don't understand why anyone, other than their family, cares if they
are wearing a seatbelt. I think it is stupid to be in a car without a
seatbelt on but it is your body and your life. Why do I get to decide
that you have to wear a seatbelt?

Steve B.

 

[Rex B]

|| Is it a coincidence or a requirement that mini-van drivers are the worst
||drivers ever. They get in the fast lane to go 50mph, put blinkers on but
||not off, obscure visibility and are generally an eyesore. I don't even try
||to let them in traffic at the off ramps anymore,because it's inevitable
||they'll go at least 5 miles below the speed limit. Not to mention all the
||extra peripherals (DVD & Games) added to encourage an accident. We saw that
||episode of the Simpsons when the Americans put all that junk in the lighter
||to stuff their faces in traffic- too funny, but also pathetic.
||
|| Unless you have a tribe or other legitimate reason, i.e. business, to buy
||one of those things, (and so you can load up at the cheap grocery feed store
||is not one those parking lots are full of them-from my observation?), you do
||not NEED one. And if you WANT one, well that's a problem all it's own.
||
|| Right now the influx of tourists (they come in waves by country) Germans
||right now are taking up the whole town with their mini-vans that have become
||quite popular over the last few years. They used to only come with the Mini
||Winnies which we carped over but now it's worse with the addition of the
||mini-van invasion (they take up 2.5 of a regular car, so parking is a PITA
||and ferry travel slows considerably). Hate 'em, hate 'em, hate 'em- the
||minivans- not the Germans. And they literally block whole streets, made for
||Fiat sized cars.
||
|| Sorry, just a peeve- this board is my commitment to frugal therapy.
||
|| Michelle
|| Italy

In the U.S, the environment is a bit different. Parking is not a problem even
for a much larger vehicle, unlike most places I've visited in Europe. People
buy minivans for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is you can transport a
lot of people comfortable across town or across state. I drove a minivan
(Chevrolet Astro) for many years. It was the closest thing I've found yet to a
universal vehicle: Sat 8 comfortably, towed up to 4000 lbs, hauled an enormous
amount of cargo with the seats out, got 20 mpg around town with the A/C on, and
was relatively trouble-free for 250K miles.
Oh, and it never held anybody up in the fast lane. It cruised at 80 easily.
Kept the front tires at -1 deg camber, and the tires wore evenly.
But it wouln't be much fun to drive one in France or Italy. We rented a
Renault Scenic last month in France, and it did well with 4 adults and a boot
full of luggage. 35 mpg diesel, driven briskly.
Texas Parts Guy

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

given a choice between a car with nothing, lap belts only, 3 point
harness or 3 point with dual stage airbag, the 3 point with dual stage
airbag is going to be safer.

If you're a large, belted man: Yes.
If you're a small, belted woman: No.
If you're somewhere in between and/or unbelted: How lucky do you feel?

You can see all this for yourself in NHTSA's own data, if you'd take a
moment to actually learn something about what you're professing about.
Science trumps your guesses and opinions with one hand tied behind its
back.

DS

 

[Daniel J. Stern]

Correlation does NOT imply causation,

but you dont know it *doesnt* either.

Correlation does not imply causation, period. Statistics 101, day one,
first five minutes of class.

DS