Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!

Discussion in 'Hyundai Sonata' started by Bob, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. Bob

    Matt Whiting Guest

    Do you go to the cheapest hospital and doctor when you are sick?

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Nov 13, 2007
    #21
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  2. Bob

    Tom Guest

    Wait til you get on Medicare and HAVE to go to the cheapest and least
    experienced hospital/doctor because the good ones are no longer accepting
    Medicare patients since our government is cutting the doctors' allowed
    charges. Sad but true.
     
    Tom, Nov 14, 2007
    #22
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  3. Bob

    Matt Whiting Guest

    There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go
    cheap. The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it
    didn't matter.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Nov 14, 2007
    #23
  4. Bob

    Tom Guest

    The perception that price = quality is no longer valid,,, unfortunately.
    Everywhere you look, you see 'Made in China'. I was at the optometrist
    yesterday and looked at $300 frames made in China with designer labels.
    $300 would be a year's salary for many over there. Don't equate 'cheap'
    cost with cheap quality. It no longer has any bearing.
     
    Tom, Nov 14, 2007
    #24
  5. Bob

    Tom Guest

    I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design
    management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly
    under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore
    products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion
    corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests."
    Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean
    it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying
    products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it.
     
    Tom, Nov 14, 2007
    #25
  6. Bob

    Deck Guest

    My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea"
     
    Deck, Nov 14, 2007
    #26
  7. Bob

    Matt Whiting Guest

    It certainly isn't the only metric, but it does hold for many, many
    products. Every oil test I've seen shows correlation between quality
    and price.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Nov 14, 2007
    #27
  8. Bob

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management
    experience [but in a $6B company - :)], and I've never had any such
    mandate. However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key
    is what the specifications are against which the product is being
    tested. I designed products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging,
    but I can see a distinct difference between packaging and products for
    longer-term use. If the packaging is good enough to protect the
    contents while it is in transit, that is all that is needed. Making it
    two times better adds no value. Products that will see a long service
    live under widely varying conditions are a little bit different.

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Nov 14, 2007
    #28
  9. I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India.
     
    Edgar MacArthur, Nov 14, 2007
    #29
  10. Bob

    Tom Guest

    Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous
    chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very
    strange that you never were under cost constraints. You must have been
    making the overpriced machinery that we bought. :eek:) Our company was still
    'small' enough to not be insulated from upper management. We routinely
    conversed and interacted with them. They actually knew what was going on at
    the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run
    by MBA's and accountants.


     
    Tom, Nov 14, 2007
    #30
  11. Bob

    Tom Guest

    There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap...................
     
    Tom, Nov 14, 2007
    #31
  12. Bob

    Bob Guest

    That's interesting in that mine did not specify. I posted a bunch of
    pictures of it in the ~ June timeframe just after they appeared in the
    stores. The failed filter was installed around the end of August. I looked
    at the O-ring again, and it is still compressed looking.
     
    Bob, Nov 15, 2007
    #32
  13. Didn't you just say that the country of origin was no indication of
    quality? Or by "cheap", do you simply mean "least expensive".
     
    Brian Nystrom, Nov 15, 2007
    #33
  14. Exactly. Moreover, when I checked the specs of the Fram filter for the
    Elantra, the relief valve (bypass valve) pressure was well below
    Hyundai's specifications. OTOH, Purolator filters ARE made to Hyundai's
    factory specs. I imagine other reputable filters are also made to the
    correct specs, but obviously, Fram doesn't care enough to do so, which
    is more than good enough reason for me to avoid them like the plague.

    Additionally, any company that sells "snake oil" such as filters that
    contain Teflon (long ago disproved as a useful oil additive) and
    nonsense like special filters for use with synthetic oils is highly
    suspect. This silliness is all about marketing and increasing profits by
    deceiving the public, not about protecting engines.
     
    Brian Nystrom, Nov 15, 2007
    #34
  15. Bob

    Plague Boy Guest

    I'd DIE before I put that cheap Korean crap on my Hyundai.

    PB
     
    Plague Boy, Nov 15, 2007
    #35
  16. Bob

    southluke Guest

    denial

    Wow! We have covered several areas. I have a BSEE
    MBA and Masters in Systems Engineering degrees. Have over 30 year
    experience in product design and now work for a major airplan
    manufacturing company (many billions) as an Avionics Engineer.

    To evaluate an oil filter, one would need to know the specification
    of the product including the tolorances of the parts, the materia
    trace, the characteristics of the paper used in the filter, th
    quality control system, etc. We do not have access to that kind o
    info so just have to go by hearsay and experience

    I have found a couple of websites that have evaluated oil filters bu
    just take those inputs with a grain of salt. Also, I wonder abou
    the value of the filter with the high detergent oils we have today

    Medical question: I have an HMO and have had a couple of majo
    surguries over the years. One should be educated and well informe
    before listening to any doctor. I investigate the ones I use ver
    thoroughly before using them. Money is not the determining facto
    but past results are indicative of their quality.

    When judging the quality of almost anything we purchase or use toda
    we are limited by time to do research and lack of availabl
    information

    According to my training, a product should meet the liste
    requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sur
    this is the attitude of Hyundai
     
    southluke, Nov 15, 2007
    #36
  17. Bob

    Bob Guest

    That filter may well be a genuine Hyundai filter repackaged by Fram.
    You've joking, right? Your car is "Made in Korea". Even if it's assembled
    in the US, most of the parts are made in Korea.
     
    Bob, Nov 15, 2007
    #37
  18. Bob

    Tom Guest

    I was using the comments of 'others' to show them that, if they were correct
    in their proposition that country of origin makes them cheaper, then you
    can't get any 'cheaper' than India. That was a revered Purolator filter
    that was made in India, not a Fram. ALL companies under pricing pressure
    are reverting to the lowest cost producer and making things 'just good
    enough' to do the job. Fact of life.
     
    Tom, Nov 15, 2007
    #38
  19. Bob

    Tom Guest

    Very well put, southluke.


     
    Tom, Nov 15, 2007
    #39
  20. Bob

    Matt Whiting Guest

    I never said I wasn't under cost constraints. I said that I'd never had
    a mandate from the CEO to to "make the product JUST good enough to pass
    the tests."

    I'm not insulated from upper management. I had the CEO, the President
    and COO and the CTO in my lab just a few months ago and they are
    visiting my project again next week...

    Matt
     
    Matt Whiting, Nov 15, 2007
    #40
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