Hyundai Genesis: Rear-wheel drive? What!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Thee Chicago Wolf
  • Start date Start date
Brian said:
Oh puleeze! I'm not going to argue that restrictions should be placed on
horsepower or anything like that, but it's long past time that people
started being more realistic as to what's really necessary in a car.
There is not a single valid argument for having more than 180-200
horsepower in a passenger car. It's one thing if you need a truck to
haul or tow huge loads, but in passenger cars, it's simply frivolous and
wasteful. If you want a toy, you can get all the performance you want in
smaller, lighter cars that actually get decent gas mileage and don't
cost a fortune, just ask Lotus.
Click to expand...

That is only your opinion. Many people drive performance cars for
recreation and enjoyment. Tell me all of the things you do for
enjoyment, and unless you are the dullest person on earth, I'll bet I
can make a good argument why you shouldn't do what you do.

Hardly. There is no excuse for passenger vehicles that can't get at
least 25 mpg on the highway. There's also no excuse for wasting finite
resources by driving oversize vehicles with huge engines.

It's long past time that gas guzzler taxes were reintroduced. Perhaps
it's time for a horsepower tax, too. Put the money into development of
alternative fuel technologies and we'll all be better off.
Click to expand...

I can argue that there is no excuse for using gasoline at all. We've
had bicycles for a long time and feet even longer than that. If we all
walked and rode bicycles everywhere, we wouldn't need to burn gasoline
at all. So why is your bar set at 25 MPG better than mine set a
infinite MPG?


Matt
 
Tell me all of the things you do for
enjoyment,
SEX!!!!!


unless you are the dullest person on earth, I'll bet I
can make a good argument why you shouldn't do what you do.
Click to expand...

Man, I hope not!
 
Mike said:
Man, I hope not!
Click to expand...

You hope aren't the dullest person on earth? Or you hope that I can't
make a good argument why you shouldn't have sex? :-) There are
actually many good arguments for the latter, at least as many as there
are for not driving a vehicle that gets less than 25 MPG!

Matt
 
That is only your opinion. Many people drive performance cars for
recreation and enjoyment. Tell me all of the things you do for
enjoyment, and unless you are the dullest person on earth, I'll bet I
can make a good argument why you shouldn't do what you do.




I can argue that there is no excuse for using gasoline at all. We've
had bicycles for a long time and feet even longer than that. If we all
walked and rode bicycles everywhere, we wouldn't need to burn gasoline
at all. So why is your bar set at 25 MPG better than mine set a
infinite MPG?

Matt
Click to expand...

Get a life, man

L.
 
So if you can get 350 horsepower from an engine that gets 60 mpg, it should
be taxed due to excessive horsepower? If you want alternative ideas, don't
put a tax on them.
Click to expand...


The Brits tax vehicles based on the amount of CO2 emissions regardless
of engine size or horsepower

That seems fair.....the more garbage you generate, the more you pay

L.
 
Edwin said:
So if you can get 350 horsepower from an engine that gets 60 mpg, it should
be taxed due to excessive horsepower? If you want alternative ideas, don't
put a tax on them.
Click to expand...

Show me an engine that will do that and I'll change my tune, but we both
know that's never going to happen.
 
Matt said:
That is only your opinion. Many people drive performance cars for
recreation and enjoyment.
Click to expand...

I used to feel the same way, then I grew up. ;-)

If people want to drive HP cars, fine, let them pay for the damage that
their recreation does.
Tell me all of the things you do for
enjoyment, and unless you are the dullest person on earth, I'll bet I
can make a good argument why you shouldn't do what you do.
Click to expand...

Let's see, there's cycling, sea kayaking, X/C skiing for three. Please
tell me how irresponsible they are compared to driving gas-hog vehicles.
I can argue that there is no excuse for using gasoline at all. We've
had bicycles for a long time and feet even longer than that. If we all
walked and rode bicycles everywhere, we wouldn't need to burn gasoline
at all. So why is your bar set at 25 MPG better than mine set a
infinite MPG?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, when one has no valid rebuttal to an argument, come up with some
complete absurdity to try and make the original argumnet look invalid.
Come on Matt, you can do better than that...or perhaps not.
 
Wow, that is one of the most short sighted statements I've read in a long
time. Since this is a Hyundai group, can I assume you drive a Hyundai? Do
you recall the same thing being said (truthfully, I might add) about Hyundai
in 1986? The first generation of Hyundai was crap. The Chinese are very
capable of making a good product along with some of the junk we ask for. It
will be interesting to see what shows up.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have an 02 Sonata. I am unaware of any first generation
anything that went over perfectly. Well, perhaps maybe the iPod. I
don't think it's short sighted as the early Hyundai's did have their
share of problems but again, the operative word is early. 1986 is a
long time ago. Care to take the same argument over to Saturns line of
cars. They were (are?) riddled with problems in the early generations
but the quality seems to have improved in the past few years. I rarely
see any pre-2000 Hyundai's on the road and I presume it's because of
their poor quality from the early generations. The Chinese have just
started seeing if their vehicles would have a market over here but I
wonder about the quality control there as compared to our standards. I
think they have some hurdles ahead of them and would have to re-tool
or be subject to the US quality standards before people would buy
them. I'm rambling a bit but remember Fiat in the 80s? Yeah, who else
does. Guess what I see on the streets of Chicago every once in a while
now? Those micro compact Fiats. Like Hyundai's early mid-80's cars,
I'm sure in 20 years, they've straightened out the quality issues.
Same probably goes for the Fiats I see now. Cheers.

- Thee Chicago Wolf
 
Brian Nystrom said:
So if you can get 350 horsepower from an engine that gets 60 mpg, it should
be taxed due to excessive horsepower? If you want alternative ideas, don't
put a tax on them.
Click to expand...

Well, that's a scientifically impossible statement unless fuel octane
were 100+ or cars were so light they took less energy to move. There
is no way to escape the amount of waste generated by heat from a
carbon based internal combustion engine without the assistance of 3rd
party regenerative technology (currently in development). It's dumb to
tax horsepower but it's also dumb to make cars with obscene amounts of
horsepower. Especially in this day and age. The people who drive gas
guzzlers have money to pay a lot for their inefficient vehicles so
they will never care. They don't see the problem. As long as the auto
makers can make huge money off of gas guzzlers and people buy them and
waste more fuel driving them, we're all screwed.

Realistically, taxing horsepower is not the best solution since that
would heavily impact the construction biz with their trucks and
construction equipment.

- Thee Chicago Wolf
 
Brian Nystrom said:
Show me an engine that will do that and I'll change my tune, but we both
know that's never going to happen.
Click to expand...

Sure because people like you keep threatening to tax it. Just like the 120
mpg carburetors the oil companies are hiding.
 
Leonardo said:
The Brits tax vehicles based on the amount of CO2 emissions regardless
of engine size or horsepower

That seems fair.....the more garbage you generate, the more you pay
Click to expand...

That seems stupid. CO2 is very valuable for trees and other plant life.
They should pay car owners for creating it!

Matt
 
Brian said:
I used to feel the same way, then I grew up. ;-)

If people want to drive HP cars, fine, let them pay for the damage that
their recreation does.


Let's see, there's cycling, sea kayaking, X/C skiing for three. Please
tell me how irresponsible they are compared to driving gas-hog vehicles.
Click to expand...

How do you get to the ocean for sea kayaking and the mountains for X/C
skiing. If you ride your bike to both carrying your kayak or skies,
then you win. If you drive anything that burns petroleum, then you are
wasting valuable resources that I need to get to work.

Ah yes, when one has no valid rebuttal to an argument, come up with some
complete absurdity to try and make the original argumnet look invalid.
Come on Matt, you can do better than that...or perhaps not.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, when you have no rebuttal, claim that the argument you can't
rebut is absurd. Nice try, but no points. Please play again.

Matt
 
Brian said:
Let's see, there's cycling, sea kayaking, X/C skiing for three. Please
tell me how irresponsible they are compared to driving gas-hog vehicles.
Click to expand...

Is this all you do for recreation? If I only list three, I'd list
camping, cycling and hunting (in my backyard so I don't even have to
drive to where I hunt). However, I have more than three and I suspect
you do also, but just don't want to list those.

Matt
 
Thee Chicago Wolf said:
Care to take the same argument over to Saturns line of
cars. They were (are?) riddled with problems in the early generations
but the quality seems to have improved in the past few years.
Click to expand...

I'm not making any agrument, you made a satement that Chinese cars will fall
apart. Sure Saturn had problem, but every car make "used" to. They all have
improved greatly and I expect the Chinese will be a few steps ahead of
Hyundai, Saturn, Kia, Subaru, etc, when they finally do arrive.
The Chinese have just
started seeing if their vehicles would have a market over here but I
wonder about the quality control there as compared to our standards. I
think they have some hurdles ahead of them and would have to re-tool
or be subject to the US quality standards before people would buy
them.
Click to expand...



Right, that is why they have many US engineers guiding them. As well as
engineers from other car makers of the world. If you take a careful look,
China is capable of producing very high quality manufactured parts. They
are building parts for GE jet engines as an example. If you want cheap
junk, just write the specifications and they will do it. Want high quaity
machined parts? They can do that to in increasing numbers every day. Some
months ago I read the China has delayed introducing cars to the US because
they want to be sure it is going to be good quality.



I'm rambling a bit but remember Fiat in the 80s? Yeah, who else
does. Guess what I see on the streets of Chicago every once in a while
now? Those micro compact Fiats.
Click to expand...

I also remember the Fiat 128 of the 70's and the Fiat tooling that was sold
to make the Yugo in the 80's. IIRC, they were something like $2800 new.

Like Hyundai's early mid-80's cars,
I'm sure in 20 years, they've straightened out the quality issues.
Same probably goes for the Fiats I see now. Cheers.
Click to expand...

I was hoping to have a Fiat as a rental when I was in Italy two weeks ago.
They gave me a Smart ForFor instead. The Fiat is a good looking car these
days and I suspect much more reliable than in the past. Even Peugeot has
some good looking cars today, but I have no idea of reliability.
 
Leonardo said:
The Brits tax vehicles based on the amount of CO2 emissions regardless
of engine size or horsepower

That seems fair.....the more garbage you generate, the more you pay
Click to expand...

The Brits are your example of doing things correctly ?
They couldn't win the second world war without our help. They have a medical
system where you die before you can get a heart bypass. They have the most
miserable teeth except possibly the French,
and most importantly ( Drum Roll please ) CO2 is not garbage. There would
not be any plant life without it.
There is not one single bit of scientific EVIDENCE that CO2 harms the
environment. If you have a problem with the generation of CO2 you might want
to consider the option of not breathing any more, you do generate lots of
CO2 when you exhale. Why are you polluting my nice clean breathable air?
 
The Brits are your example of doing things correctly ?
They couldn't win the second world war without our help. They have a medical
system where you die before you can get a heart bypass. They have the most
miserable teeth except possibly the French,
and most importantly ( Drum Roll please ) CO2 is not garbage. There would
not be any plant life without it.
There is not one single bit of scientific EVIDENCE that CO2 harms the
environment. If you have a problem with the generation of CO2 you might want
to consider the option of not breathing any more, you do generate lots of
CO2 when you exhale. Why are you polluting my nice clean breathable air?
Click to expand...

Thanks for enlightening me, especially about the teeth thing. The
depth of your insight is most impressive.
From now on whenever I engage someone in discussion the first thing
Click to expand...
I'll do is look at their teeth.... if they are white and straight I'll
know they are smart.

L.
 
You guys worrying about CO2 had better start worrying about bees. Einstein
once said the world could not exist over 4 days without bees, now
scientists are saying bees have disappeared on east coast by 70 percent
and over 60 percent on west coast...see how many MPG you get without them,
and yu're dead!!!
 
Leonardo said:
Thanks for enlightening me, especially about the teeth thing. The
depth of your insight is most impressive.

I'll do is look at their teeth.... if they are white and straight I'll
know they are smart.

L.
Click to expand...
As long as they are not engaging in modest sarcasm or satire because you are
obviously not attuned to it.
 
Matt said:
How do you get to the ocean for sea kayaking and the mountains for X/C
skiing. If you ride your bike to both carrying your kayak or skies,
then you win. If you drive anything that burns petroleum, then you are
wasting valuable resources that I need to get to work.
Click to expand...

Changing the subject are we? I never said that I don't drive to enjoy
some of my other pursuits, I just do it in a car that gets well over 30
mpg, rather than a gas-hog.
Ah yes, when you have no rebuttal, claim that the argument you can't
rebut is absurd. Nice try, but no points. Please play again.

Matt
Click to expand...

Nice try Matt, doesn't work.
 
Back
Top