Hyundai preformance on icy raods

[Dan K]

Our XG350 is horrible on icy roads. We have experienced this twice now,
once while on vacation where the condo was on a hill that got iced up, and
now again while on vacation when we went through an ice storm. The vehicle
has never behaved badly on snowy roads, or slushy roads, just ice. The
vehicle has brand new Briggstone Turansa tires that I've used on other
vehicles and they have been great on ice. I know there is a lot of weight
on the front wheels (due to the tires always looking like they need air) so
I would expect that the car would be good on ice, but no. Anybody out there
have similar experience with Hyundai and ice? Any ideas what to do about
it? I run my tires high (35-40 psi), would lowering that help?

BTW I'm in Minnesota, so I know how to drive on snow and ice.

Thanks

Dan

 

[DonC]

Our XG350 is horrible on icy roads. We have experienced this twice now,
once while on vacation where the condo was on a hill that got iced up, and
now again while on vacation when we went through an ice storm. The
vehicle has never behaved badly on snowy roads, or slushy roads, just ice.
The vehicle has brand new Briggstone Turansa tires that I've used on other
vehicles and they have been great on ice. I know there is a lot of weight
on the front wheels (due to the tires always looking like they need air)
so I would expect that the car would be good on ice, but no. Anybody out
there have similar experience with Hyundai and ice? Any ideas what to do
about it? I run my tires high (35-40 psi), would lowering that help?

BTW I'm in Minnesota, so I know how to drive on snow and ice.

Thanks

Dan

Lowering them to specs would certainly put more tread on the road so it
should help. There's an easy way to find out : )

Now, if you've lived in Minnesota for any appreciable time, you know darn
well that driving on glare ice is almost impossible unless you have studs
installed in your tires. Alas, they were eventually banned in Michigan due
to the damage the caused to concrete roads.

I chose a more radical solution after living in Michigan for decades. Moved
to Arizona! ; )

 

[hyundaitech]

The electronic throttle probably makes it difficult to have the degree of
throttle control you desire. You do, on the other hand have the
shiftronic feature, so you could try starting out in second gear to see if
that improves anything.

I'm also not sure you'd be increasing contact area by removing some air
from the tires. Even at 35 PSI, the XG's front tires seem to bulge
significantly at the sidewall.

 

[Rev. Tom Wenndt]

Especially if you are from Minnesota, you should keep in mind the effect
that the bitter cold has on regular all-season tires, even beyond being
potentially poor in either snow or ice. You just will not get the grip on
even a good all-season tire that you would in Summer.

I HIGHLY recommend that Minnesotans use a set of dedicated Winter tires on
their vehicles. You will be stunned how much of a difference it makes on
your XG350.

 

[Matt Whiting]

Especially if you are from Minnesota, you should keep in mind the effect
that the bitter cold has on regular all-season tires, even beyond being
potentially poor in either snow or ice. You just will not get the grip on
even a good all-season tire that you would in Summer.

I agree if you are talking about grip on pavement, although most winter
tires aren't that good on pavement either. On snow or ice, the colder
the better for almost all tires. The traction when temps are below zero
is FAR better than when between 20 and warmer. The main culprit in poor
traction on ice and packed snow is a very thin layer of water formed
between the tire and the snow or ice due to the pressure. This layer is
difficult to form when it gets cold enough and thus the traction
improves dramatically.

I HIGHLY recommend that Minnesotans use a set of dedicated Winter tires on
their vehicles. You will be stunned how much of a difference it makes on
your XG350.

Yes, not doubt that purpose-built tires are better in the conditions for
which they are designed, but they are also much worse in almost all
conditions other than for which they were designed. If you have snow on
the road the majority of the time, then I would get snow tires. Where I
live, we have snow on the roads for only a small part of the time and
thus snow tires are a bad deal overall. Our road crews are very good
and typically have the salt out and the roads clear within hours of a
snowfall. The roads are then wet and soon dry and in both of these
conditions, the all-season radials outperform the dedicated winter tires.


Matt

 

[Brian Nystrom]

I agree if you are talking about grip on pavement, although most winter
tires aren't that good on pavement either. On snow or ice, the colder
the better for almost all tires. The traction when temps are below zero
is FAR better than when between 20 and warmer. The main culprit in poor
traction on ice and packed snow is a very thin layer of water formed
between the tire and the snow or ice due to the pressure. This layer is
difficult to form when it gets cold enough and thus the traction
improves dramatically.



Yes, not doubt that purpose-built tires are better in the conditions for
which they are designed, but they are also much worse in almost all
conditions other than for which they were designed. If you have snow on
the road the majority of the time, then I would get snow tires. Where I
live, we have snow on the roads for only a small part of the time and
thus snow tires are a bad deal overall. Our road crews are very good
and typically have the salt out and the roads clear within hours of a
snowfall. The roads are then wet and soon dry and in both of these
conditions, the all-season radials outperform the dedicated winter tires.

OTOH, I run dedicated snow tires every winter and have for decades. Just
for fun, when I bought my Elantra, I decided to try the stock tires in
the winter. One snowstorm was all it took to convince me of the error of
that thinking. I live in NH, where the road crews are very adept at
getting the highways and main roads cleared quickly, but that's not
always the case on secondary and rural roads. Moreover, wet roads often
get slushy then freeze at night, creating treacherous conditions. My
experience has been that having dedicated winter tires (Nokian Hakka
IIs, in my case) is a night and day difference in performance in
difficult conditions. I don't find them to be a problem on dry roads at
all (I don't drive aggressively enough for it to matter) and they work
fine in winter rains, too. They do handle some differently than my
summer tires, but I've done this for long enough that I make the
adjustment in a few miles.

I have no choice but to drive in some pretty horrendous conditions, so
the choice of whether to go with dedicated winter tires is a no-brainer
for me. I have to admit to taking a certain perverse pleasure in
comfortably cruising by white-knuckled SUV drivers that are sliding all
over - or off - the road on their "all season" tires, which really
should be called "no season", since they pretty well suck at everything.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend several thousand
extra dollars on almost useless FWD when they could get better
performance with a front-drive vehicle and a few hundred dollars spent
on good winter rubber.

 

[Matt Whiting]

OTOH, I run dedicated snow tires every winter and have for decades. Just
for fun, when I bought my Elantra, I decided to try the stock tires in
the winter. One snowstorm was all it took to convince me of the error of
that thinking. I live in NH, where the road crews are very adept at
getting the highways and main roads cleared quickly, but that's not
always the case on secondary and rural roads. Moreover, wet roads often
get slushy then freeze at night, creating treacherous conditions. My
experience has been that having dedicated winter tires (Nokian Hakka
IIs, in my case) is a night and day difference in performance in
difficult conditions. I don't find them to be a problem on dry roads at
all (I don't drive aggressively enough for it to matter) and they work
fine in winter rains, too. They do handle some differently than my
summer tires, but I've done this for long enough that I make the
adjustment in a few miles.

I have no choice but to drive in some pretty horrendous conditions, so
the choice of whether to go with dedicated winter tires is a no-brainer
for me. I have to admit to taking a certain perverse pleasure in
comfortably cruising by white-knuckled SUV drivers that are sliding all
over - or off - the road on their "all season" tires, which really
should be called "no season", since they pretty well suck at everything.
It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend several thousand
extra dollars on almost useless FWD when they could get better
performance with a front-drive vehicle and a few hundred dollars spent
on good winter rubber.

I think we've had this conversation before, but I've had a much
different experience. I live in extreme northern PA (just a mile or two
south of the NY border) and our winters are pretty nasty here also.
Maybe not as bad as NH, but that probably depends on where in NH you live.

I've had no problems with All-season tires. The only tires I've had
trouble with are the stock tires that came on my Sonata, but they were
Michelin "performance" tires rather than all-season tires. My driveway
alone is more treacherous that most roads and I plow it myself, but do
not apply any salt, cinders or sand. I can send you a picture if you
want to see it!

I haven't run a snow tire on a car since the 1970s and get through
winters just fine. I don run M&S tires on my Chevy pickup as that is my
plow vehicle and I don't want to have to mess with putting on chains. I
do have a full set of chains, but have only needed them once and that
was with the original Goodyear AT tires that didn't have a very
aggressive tread. However, these tires are very loud on the road and
wear pretty quickly, but for a truck that sees only 5K miles a year and
most of them are plowing snow or hauling firewood, rapid wear isn't a
big deal.

I've found that performance in the snow is more a function of driver
technique than tire style. I routinely drive 55-60 on snow covered
4-lane roads and pass SUVs all of the time. The all-season tires on my
Sonata and minivan work just fine in anything less than a foot of snow.
If I have to deal with a foot or more, I take the truck.

Matt

 

[Brian Nystrom]

I think we've had this conversation before, but I've had a much
different experience. I live in extreme northern PA (just a mile or two
south of the NY border) and our winters are pretty nasty here also.
Maybe not as bad as NH, but that probably depends on where in NH you live.

Yes, we've discussed this before and I'm sure our respective winters are
comparable enough.

I've had no problems with All-season tires. The only tires I've had
trouble with are the stock tires that came on my Sonata, but they were
Michelin "performance" tires rather than all-season tires. My driveway
alone is more treacherous that most roads and I plow it myself, but do
not apply any salt, cinders or sand. I can send you a picture if you
want to see it!

I haven't run a snow tire on a car since the 1970s and get through
winters just fine. I don run M&S tires on my Chevy pickup as that is my
plow vehicle and I don't want to have to mess with putting on chains. I
do have a full set of chains, but have only needed them once and that
was with the original Goodyear AT tires that didn't have a very
aggressive tread. However, these tires are very loud on the road and
wear pretty quickly, but for a truck that sees only 5K miles a year and
most of them are plowing snow or hauling firewood, rapid wear isn't a
big deal.

We're talking about car tires here, not truck tires. You really cannot
compare the two. Winter car tires do not have the disadvantages of truck
tires, either in noise or wear. There is usually a very slight increase
in noise and I get at least three winters out of a set of tires, driving
them ~5 months per year. I find that acceptable given their benefits.

I've found that performance in the snow is more a function of driver
technique than tire style. I routinely drive 55-60 on snow covered
4-lane roads and pass SUVs all of the time. The all-season tires on my
Sonata and minivan work just fine in anything less than a foot of snow.
If I have to deal with a foot or more, I take the truck.

Perhaps it's time you tried a set of dedicated winter tires on your
cars. Your dismissive statements are typical of people who've never
tried winter tires (or in your case, haven't done so in 30+ years). The
fact is that you can't appreciate the difference until you experience
it. I've done the comparison on my Elantra and six other cars I've
owned, including several instances where I've literally driven in the
same storm with both types of tires (typically the first storm of the
season). The difference in traction is DRAMATIC compared to all season
or performance tires. Everyone I've convinced to try winter tires have
said the same thing. I also drive a lot of rental cars these days and
I've seen firsthand exactly how bad many all season tires are in winter
conditions. While I agree that technique and skill are important,
neither can create traction where it doesn't exist. That's the main
benefit of winter tires, they grip were other tires don't.

This discussion reminds me of "Green Eggs and Ham". ;-)

 

[Matt Whiting]

Perhaps it's time you tried a set of dedicated winter tires on your
cars. Your dismissive statements are typical of people who've never
tried winter tires (or in your case, haven't done so in 30+ years). The
fact is that you can't appreciate the difference until you experience
it. I've done the comparison on my Elantra and six other cars I've
owned, including several instances where I've literally driven in the
same storm with both types of tires (typically the first storm of the
season). The difference in traction is DRAMATIC compared to all season
or performance tires. Everyone I've convinced to try winter tires have
said the same thing. I also drive a lot of rental cars these days and
I've seen firsthand exactly how bad many all season tires are in winter
conditions. While I agree that technique and skill are important,
neither can create traction where it doesn't exist. That's the main
benefit of winter tires, they grip were other tires don't.

If I were having problems with all-season tires, then I would try snow
tires. However, I can drive 55 on snow covered roads with confidence
and stability and I can make it up my 1700' uphill driveway without the
need to do anything other than plow it, so there is no need to spend
extra money on tires and changing them two extra times a year.

I'm not against snow tires at all, I just don't need them ... like 98%
of the rest of the folks in the USA. There are 2% who need them and
they should buy and use them.

This discussion reminds me of "Green Eggs and Ham". ;-)

Yes, I agree!

Matt

 

[Mike Marlow]

I think we've had this conversation before, but I've had a much different
experience. I live in extreme northern PA (just a mile or two south of
the NY border) and our winters are pretty nasty here also. Maybe not as
bad as NH, but that probably depends on where in NH you live.

Yup - we seem to cover this patch of ground at least once per winter. I'm
fine with the idea that Brian and I disagree on the value of snow's. He
likes them and feels they add something, and I haven't used a pair in
decades. I live in Central NY, in the snow belt east of Lake Ontario. We
get between 200-300 inches of snow per year, so we're in the category of
severe winter weather locations.

I've had no problems with All-season tires. The only tires I've had
trouble with are the stock tires that came on my Sonata, but they were
Michelin "performance" tires rather than all-season tires. My driveway
alone is more treacherous that most roads and I plow it myself, but do not
apply any salt, cinders or sand. I can send you a picture if you want to
see it!

I too have found some all-season to be pure garbage, but my experience is
that those are more the touring tires. Bad tread patterns. Really poor
sipe designs. That said, there are many other all season tires out there
that have very good tread design and that provide absolutely positive winter
driving control.

I haven't run a snow tire on a car since the 1970s and get through winters
just fine. I don run M&S tires on my Chevy pickup as that is my plow
vehicle and I don't want to have to mess with putting on chains. I do
have a full set of chains, but have only needed them once and that was
with the original Goodyear AT tires that didn't have a very aggressive
tread. However, these tires are very loud on the road and wear pretty
quickly, but for a truck that sees only 5K miles a year and most of them
are plowing snow or hauling firewood, rapid wear isn't a big deal.

Again, our experiences are similar Matt. As you may recall, my plow truck
is a 94 Silverado. I have a set of Dunlop M&S on it and they are on it year
round. Never put a chain on my tires ever.

I've found that performance in the snow is more a function of driver
technique than tire style. I routinely drive 55-60 on snow covered 4-lane
roads and pass SUVs all of the time. The all-season tires on my Sonata
and minivan work just fine in anything less than a foot of snow. If I have
to deal with a foot or more, I take the truck.

I can't count the number of times I've had to plow my way through unplowed
roads (the one I live on), or up my driveway (300 ft+) with plow wash piled
up at the mouth of the driveway, and had snow pushing up over my hood as I
went. No exaggeration. Likewise, I cannot recall the last time I had to be
pulled out of anything, dug out of anything or pushed out of anything, in my
car. A good set of all season tires will chew through anything you put
under them, and as you say, the highway stuff is a reflection of both a good
tread design in an all season tire, and driving technique.

 

[Brian Nystrom]

If I were having problems with all-season tires, then I would try snow
tires. However, I can drive 55 on snow covered roads with confidence
and stability and I can make it up my 1700' uphill driveway without the
need to do anything other than plow it, so there is no need to spend
extra money on tires and changing them two extra times a year.

I'm not against snow tires at all, I just don't need them ... like 98%
of the rest of the folks in the USA. There are 2% who need them and
they should buy and use them.

Considering how much of the country lies in the "snow belt", that's a
pretty ridiculous statement.

 

[DonC]

Considering how much of the country lies in the "snow belt", that's a
pretty ridiculous statement.

Possibly, but consider how many people who live in the snow belt get along
just fine without snow tires. I lived over 60 years in snowy mid-Michigan
and never had a need for snow tires. And when front-wheel-drive became
common there was even less need for the hassle of changing in and out of
snow tires.

 

[Matt Whiting]

Considering how much of the country lies in the "snow belt", that's a
pretty ridiculous statement.

No, most of the people in the snow belt are like me and simply don't
need snow tires. I did a quick search and was not able to find any
detailed figures on USA tire sales by type, but I'll bet my 2% figure
isn't far off as the fraction of total tire sales annually that are
winter tires.

Matt

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Considering how much of the country lies in the "snow belt", that's a
pretty ridiculous statement.

Maybe not. Back in the 50's, I remember putting full chains on my father's
car for the first couple of days after a snow. Main roads were poorly
plowed, side streets were not plowed at all. We lived in Philadelphia and a
6" snow was a lot.

I've since moved to Connecticut and 10" to 12" is common. I've never
thought about snow tires. Why? They plow frequently, they plow well, they
treat the streets. In the worst storms here, if I can get out of my
driveway, I can get most anyplace. Like anyplace else, you have to use
common sense and slow down in snow. If there is slick ice, no car is going
to fare well, no matter what tire is on it.

 

[Matt Whiting]

Maybe not. Back in the 50's, I remember putting full chains on my father's
car for the first couple of days after a snow. Main roads were poorly
plowed, side streets were not plowed at all. We lived in Philadelphia and a
6" snow was a lot.

I've since moved to Connecticut and 10" to 12" is common. I've never
thought about snow tires. Why? They plow frequently, they plow well, they
treat the streets. In the worst storms here, if I can get out of my
driveway, I can get most anyplace. Like anyplace else, you have to use
common sense and slow down in snow. If there is slick ice, no car is going
to fare well, no matter what tire is on it.

Well, studded tires help a lot on ice. Although, I haven't felt
the need for studs since the 70s.

Matt

 

[Darby OGill]

Possibly, but consider how many people who live in the snow belt get along
just fine without snow tires. I lived over 60 years in snowy mid-Michigan
and never had a need for snow tires. And when front-wheel-drive became
common there was even less need for the hassle of changing in and out of
snow tires.

I too haven't run snows in a while, but be real, all seasons really aren't
good in snow-we've all just like the ease of them.
But, I think the best way is to have four snows on four steel wheels for
the few winter months. Hey we rotate tires anyway, whats the big deal in
putting on the snows.
Snows on snow free winter roads doesn't really bother when operating at
sane speeds doing sane manuevers.
I know I have to get snow for the wifes volvo; No 245 40 17's behave at all
in snow. A narrower 16" snow on steel wheels next year for that vehicle for
sure.

 

[DonC]

Well, studded tires help a lot on ice. Although, I haven't felt the
need for studs since the 70s.

Matt

Studded tires have been banned in some states due to the damage they do to
roads. I know Michigan banned them. In any case I never got them and never
really needed them there.

 

[DonC]

I too haven't run snows in a while, but be real, all seasons really aren't
good in snow-we've all just like the ease of them.
But, I think the best way is to have four snows on four steel wheels for
the few winter months. Hey we rotate tires anyway, whats the big deal in
putting on the snows.
Snows on snow free winter roads doesn't really bother when operating at
sane speeds doing sane manuevers.
I know I have to get snow for the wifes volvo; No 245 40 17's behave at
all in snow. A narrower 16" snow on steel wheels next year for that
vehicle for sure.

Depends where you live. In mid-Michigan (Lansing area), keeping an extra set
of tires just for snow couldn't be justified by most drivers. And
accordingly, it's not a very common practice. Maybe in upper Michigan
where they get clobbered by lake-effect snow but not the rest of the state.

 

[Darby OGill]

"> Depends where you live. In mid-Michigan (Lansing area), keeping an extra
set

of tires just for snow couldn't be justified by most drivers. And
accordingly, it's not a very common practice. Maybe in upper Michigan
where they get clobbered by lake-effect snow but not the rest of the
state.

I know what your saying, but it brings to mind something my mother used to
say about cars..."It doesn't cost anymore to keep the tank full as it does
empty" Once you've bought the snows and cheap steel wheels, it doesn't cost
any more to employ them. Miles put on snows are miles not put on regular
tires....BTW how many of us use summer tires as opposed to all season
radials, and is anyone troiubled by that performance compromise (wet
weather, braking and handling). There, I'm done beating the dead
horse<grin>.....I guess the group does largely agree on one thing- The OP
faulting Hyundai is mostly without merit.(I think the touchy throttle
observation was a good one though)

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

There, I'm done beating the dead horse<grin>.....I guess the group does
largely agree on one thing- The OP faulting Hyundai is mostly without
merit.(I think the touchy throttle observation was a good one though)

Jus in case the horse is not dead.- - - - -

The Sonata 5 speed auto can be manually shifted into 2nd gear for starts on
slippery roads.