Brian said:
Fair enough, but you certainly are going out of your way to rationalize
that decision and discourage others from trying winter tires.
More BS from you, Matt? My tires are wearing quite slowly. Please do
explain why so we can all be enlightened.
I don't know how you drive nor what kind of tires you have so I have no
way to explain it.
Gee, no kidding? If it makes you feel any better, I drive the same
distances year round, in the same manner and mostly highway miles. I
typically use my summer tires ~20% more than my winter tires, which is
nowhere near enough to explain the increased wear. Your blanket
statement about tire wear is obviously, blatantly false, but you
apparently can't deal with being wrong.
So, as I expected, your mileage per year on your summer tires is NOT the
same as your winter tires as you implied in your comparison. I provided
several references that indicate that winter tires wear more rapidly
than all-season tires. You have provided nothing but your opinion to
the contrary. Sorry, that isn't even close to data.
See the details above. You're wrong, get over it.
You provided nothing but your opinion. Sorry, you are wrong, get over it.
Please show me where I ever said that I wanted the "best possible
performance". You made that up, which is pretty lame, Matt.
Everything to do with automotive performance is a compromise. When it
comes to dealing with winter conditions, I draw the line at spending
thousands of extra dollars for AWD or 4WD vehicles and thousands more in
increased fuel, insurance and maintenance costs to gain a marginal
improvement in acceleration traction in winter conditions (AWD/4WD does
nothing to improve braking or cornering in slippery conditions). I'm far
more concerned with being able to turn and stop than I am with
accelerating or getting stuck (I've only gotten stuck - briefly - in
snow once in the past 30 years, and that was because I tried to drive
though 18" of it in an un-plowed parking lot). The poor handling and
high center of gravity of many SUVs - particularly those that are truck
based - is arguably more likely to cause an accident than their AWD/4WD
systems are to prevent one. IMO, most SUV drivers would be better off
with a car that inherently handles better, equipped with four winter
tires. The environment would be better off too, but that's another
discussion entirely.
You are again wrong on virtually all counts. The gain in acceleration
and ability to go through deep snow provided by AWD is substantial as
compared the winter tires on FWD. I believe it was the Consumer Reports
link that gave the figures here, but I realize that you value your own
opinion over real data.
It is also patently false to say that AWD/4WD does nothing to add
cornering. A tire has only so much tractive force available to handle
all demands placed on it: acceleration and maintaining forward speed
(rearward force), cornering (side force) and deceleration (frontward
force). A car that is driven by only two wheels is requiring those two
tires to transfer both the full rearward force required to keep the car
moving at a steady speed in a corner as well as the side force required.
And since FWD cars typically have 60% or more of their weight on the
driving wheels, this puts a substantial burden on those two tires.
Transferring half of the required rearward force to the rear tires gives
the front tires additional margin which provides more side force and
thus more cornering capability. This is simple physics and well
understood by most automotive engineers, rally car drivers, and people
like me who drive FWD and 4WD vehicles every week all winter long.
You are mostly correct with regard to braking, but even then not
completely correct for two reasons:
1. Most AWD/4WD vehicles have a more favorable weight distribution as
compared to FWD vehicles and the relatively greater weight on the rear
wheels allows them to better share the braking force and thus deliver
more braking force.
2. My 4WD truck has no ABS, but the direct connection at the transfer
case coupled with the locking differential means that rear wheels won't
lock up and skid until at least one front wheel is also locked. This is
a great advantage over a RWD truck where the rear wheels can lock under
very light braking effort when on slick roads. My truck thus stops much
better in 4WD than in 2WD (which is RWD).
You and I apparently draw the line at different point and that's fine.
However, your fabrication of bogus disadvantages to winter tires in an
effort to justify your position is just plain pathetic.
I have not asserted a single bogus disadvantage to winter tires. Some
of the disadvantages they have are as follows and as documented in
several independent links I have provided. You have provided NOT A
SINGLE independent reference, just your opinion. The arrogance of that
is astounding.
Some winter tire disadvantages:
1. Must make two extra tire changes each year or must buy an extra set
of rims and make two wheel changes a year.
2. Poorer tread life.
3. Poorer performance on dry pavement (which is what exists MOST of the
year even in the snow belt regions. In PA and NY, it is rare to have
snow or ice on the public roads for more than a couple hours after a
storm is over. Given that most snow storms last less than 24 hours,
that means maybe 26 hours of snowy/slushy roads per storm. Given that
we get at most one snow per week on average, and typically more like one
every 2-4 weeks, that means that the conditions where winter tires excel
exist for at most 26/168 = 15% of the time and more typically 5% of the
time. I simply choose to use tires that perform better 95% of the time
rather than 5% of the time. Pretty simple logic, eh?
So, which of the above is bogus? And it only counts if you can provide
a legitimate and independent reference that refutes what I wrote. The
"it is bogus because I say it is bogus" line or argument simply carries
no weight.
MAtt
